How good is Sky HD with an LED TV?

[filski666]

Luke. said:

Ah.

Panasonic plasma.

And yes, you will be better off.

You will be better off, but only if you are watching HD or programs filmed in digital. I have never seen a plasma / lcd / LED TV that has a clearer picture than a CRT for old films and such like.

for modern and HD stuff - yes, plasma / LCD is great, but I was amazed how poor they are when I compared side by side with an old film. I stuck with my CRT for ages until it finally died and I had to get an LCD - but now with SkyHD I really appreciate it, SD (particularly old stuff)....meh, not so much

[paddyhasneeds]

Right been out today to look at some sets. I'm not convinced I'm going to be substantially better off spending, say, £900 on a set than spending £400 for what I want, which isn't a "home cinema" just a decent TV to watch Sky HD+ on.

I think 37" will be big enough, like I said I'm only 6-7 feet away from the thing and 40-42" isn't huge but it just seems it may be that bit too big.

As we have a Richer Sounds in town I nipped in there after looking in Curry's and PC World (the sheer volume on display makes it very difficult to compare models) and spotted a Sony BRAVIA KDL37EX401 for £330 - wondering if it's worth a punt on the basis "replace it in a year" if 3D takes off and so on?

Still not clear on the LCD/LED vs. Plasma thing either when you have a PANASONIC VIERA TXP37X20 for £350.. fking minefield.

[IanHug]

Take a look at http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php

[PJ S]

Grab that Panny - you'll move it on quicker/easier if you sell, last 37" Plasma they've made apparently.
It may 'only' be HD Ready, but as you're not talking about BR movies at 1080p, then you're not missing out on anything.
It's 1024x720, so pointless feeding it anything more than a 720p signal anyway.
SD on it will more like your CRT than a similarly priced (and above) LCD will, even ones with LED backlighting.
Get it, upgrade to Sky HD or switch to Virgin, and enjoy it.

[paddyhasneeds]

PJ S said:

Grab that Panny - you'll move it on quicker/easier if you sell, last 37" Plasma they've made apparently.
It may 'only' be HD Ready, but as you're not talking about BR movies at 1080p, then you're not missing out on anything.
It's 1024x720, so pointless feeding it anything more than a 720p signal anyway.
SD on it will more like your CRT than a similarly priced (and above) LCD will, even ones with LED backlighting.
Get it, upgrade to Sky HD or switch to Virgin, and enjoy it.

One thing I noticed when looking at Plasma's in PC World was that they appeared to look like more of a "grid" if that makes sense? It's as if the horizontal pixels were quite distinct, almost like when you watch a movie using VLC that needs interpolation enabled to make it look less "liney".

I would appreciate any input on Plasma's as despite the Sony appearing a bargain I am still vary wary of the performance with SD material even if it's being fed to it from a Sky HD box.

[page3]

LED TVs don't exist yet in any reasonable size. The ones you see in the shops are LED backlit LCD screens, which is a completely different technology, marketed to sound better.

[danneth]

panasonic g20 you know it makes sense

[OldSkoolRS]

Quick tip when looking at TVs in shops: Before you go, pace out how many steps it is from your current TV to your seat. When you're in the store try to stand the same distant away. Many stores have them packed so closely, that you'll have to go into the next row and look over the top to see 'your' TV in the row behind. The trouble is that you then get people walking/standing straight in front of you while you're trying to view.

FWIW I've found that some (not all) of the John Lewis stores have a section with the TVs in a darker area with more space around them which gives a better idea of what they'll be like in your home.

I have various Sony LCDs in my house, but I'd still recommend looking at the Panasonic plasmas for SD use especially: I've got my living room 40" LCD connected to a Lumagen video processor (which cost more than most 60" TVs) and the SD picture still doesn't look as good as friend's Panny plasmas on SD. [I have the Lumagen mainly for use with my projector, so I'm not as mad as it might appear].

[paddyhasneeds]

Right, so it needs to be 37", bigger is just too big for the room (I'm 7 feet or so away remember, maybe 8 allowing for the new set being further back).

For £349 if my local store still has one and it's not a shoddy refurb or something, what is better than this?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/plasma-tv/pana...

The SD and motion performance is what's steering me towards it - I'm still wary of how an LCD will perform with "average broadcast material" even on Sky HD+

To re-iterate, I really don't give a st about DVD and Blu-Ray performance, I'll be using it as a TV with Sky and it's a "living room set" - I'm not going for the Odeon here.

EDIT - does "HD Ready" vs full 1080 actually matter when we're only talking a 37" set and Sky HD?

[IanHug]

LCDs may be better except at the top end.

Proper LEDs (OLED) will be best but not available yet at a sensible price.

You could get yourself a copy of What HIFI they have a test of <£500 TVs this month. LG37LD490 comes out well. They don't seem to rate the Panasonic TX-P37X20.

[OldSkoolRS]

I wouldn't take anything that W*** H*** print to heart. They once reviewed my projector, which is known for having a very oversaturated colour gamut (the reason for the above Lumagen) and said the colours were 'good' and 'accurate' which is like saying a 1990's Transit diesel is fast and smooth. They mostly seem to regurgitate the brochure/advert details for the product with very little real information in the review.

I'd strongly recommend looking at AVForums reviews as they are much more honest an include pre and post calibration results which even if you don't fully understand them at least show how thorough they are:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/hardware-reviews/

I'd stick with that Panny you linked to IHHO.

EDIT: Re the HD ready aspect, from the distant you're viewing from a 37" may not be big enough to show the difference with 1080 anyway. It's surprising how close you need to sit to benefit from 'full HD'.

Edited by OldSkoolRS on Sunday 20th February 12:00

[PJ S]

Paddy, 1080p only exists on BR, broadcast HD is 720p and 1080i, which equates to around 810-820 vertical lines of resolution.
So since an HD Ready TV has only 768 (720 in the 37" Plasma) then 1080i if deinterlaced properly, will have minimal difference from practically all viewing distances.

As BR is not on your radar, then the X20 makes perfect sense.
I'm not aware of the issue you mentioned regarding Plasma, even on Samsung & LG ones.

[paddyhasneeds]

OK well Richer's don't have the panny available, both reserved. I did see one on demo at Curry's and PC World, looks decent enough.

Now, whilst I was sure 37" is the right size, I did see the Samsung PS42C450 which I was very impressed with and which is only £399. There was an LG plasma but it looked wk.

Having just spent some time looking at various sets (again) I'm convinced Plasma looks the smoother and more natural on Sky HD demo material, the LED/LCDs looked a bit too digital, probably fantastic for Blu-Ray but as 95% of my viewing will be Sky HD....

So, off to do some digging but any thoughts on the Samsung @ £399 (incidentally the 42" Panasonic is the same price)?

I think I'll buy online whatever I go for as I get a little slack from distance selling regs should I think "Oh my god why did I do this", and point taken about the likes of What Hi Fi, I always take them with a pinch of salt.

[randlemarcus]

If you're buying online, it's always worth looking at digitaldirect.co.uk, as it keeps our very own Derestrictor in schnell juice and vitriol

[paddyhasneeds]

randlemarcus said:

If you're buying online, it's always worth looking at digitaldirect.co.uk, as it keeps our very own Derestrictor in schnell juice and vitriol

That's good to know actually as I'm assuming he's not going to be any trouble with any aftersales issues

I noticed John Lewis are doing the Samsung @ £399 too, but with their 5 year warranty which is worth a few quid.

So, I think we're down to the 37" Panny or the 42" Sammy unless anyone wants to throw anything else into the mix.

[OldSkoolRS]

Just been to the John Lewis at High Wycombe this afternoon and they had a couple of ex display Panny plasmas, though they were 42" G20 or similar, they include the 5 year warranty with the ex display ones as well. Might be worth trying your local branch to see if they are selling off any of the 'old' G20 models.

PS. Just to correct the '1080i is equal to 800 lines' comment: It isn't unless you're watching a 2.35:1 film (ie with the black bars top and bottom) which 'wastes' approx 200 lines. Once deinterlaced by your display or video processor you get 1080 lines on a 1080p display.

Edited by OldSkoolRS on Sunday 20th February 15:48

[PJ S]

Sorry, but 1080i is eqivalent to 810p in terms of absolute resolution.
What a 1080 native resolution display will do, is take the 810 lines of resolution, and upscale them to fit the available 1080 pixels - exactly as it does with a 720p and 576i signal.
To suggest 1080i = 1080p once deinterlaced is being extremely generous.
A simple bit of bandwith maths shows 1080i could never equal 1080p.

[OldSkoolRS]

Sorry to drag this thread further off topic, but I don't know where you get these 810 lines of data from?

Interlaced video is made from two successive fields of 540 lines (one is all the 'odd' lines and the other is all the 'even' lines). This is then recombined by the video processor/display to show the whole 1080 lines at once in a single frame ( the 'P' part of 1080p). There is no upscaling occuring in this case as the 1080 lines already exist, albeit with a time delay if from a video source.

There are various types of interlaced sources, so for example those from a 'video' source (as opposed to from 'film') will require the video processor/display to interpolate parts of the image (ie like upscaling). This is because there is a time difference between the odd and even fields, so movement can create a 'combing' effect if badly deinterlaced. Some displays simply throw away half of the 540 lines so this loses resolution. I agree that this type of interlaced video isn't as good as 1080p from BluRay for example.

However for a true film source, then there is no loss of information and the whole 1080 image is recreated on the display: For example a 1080i BluRay (such as many concerts or documentries) are encoded at 1080/60i but are 'filmed' at 30 frames per second ie 1080/30p. There is no time difference between the odd and even fields in the case of film sourced interlaced video. This is put onto the disc as 1080/60i and the deinterlacing recreates the original 1080/30p which is displayed twice per frame to give 1080/60p on your display.

Edited by OldSkoolRS on Sunday 20th February 17:12

[paddyhasneeds]

If you're going to argue about it, could one of you explain to me in laymans terms whether what you're arguing about should matter to me?

[OldSkoolRS]

paddyhasneeds said:

If you're going to argue about it, could one of you explain to me in laymans terms whether what you're arguing about should matter to me?

I wouldn't worry about it, just go and buy that Panny plasma. I was trying to be helpful and correct what I feel is an incorrect statement, but maybe I should have just left it.