Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Also moving away from Prometheus slightly and looking at the film industry in general, Hollywood seems to produce far more bad films then good. Out of the hundreds of films per year, I think possibly only 10% are any good and maybe another 20% are above average, the rest range from below bar to downright dire. Now considering we are talking about multi-million dollar investments, those odds seem pretty dire to me. I certainly wouldn't bet my own money on it.
So what goes wrong, at what stage does a film which in theory has all the right ingredients, loose the plot (no pun intended). Prometheus had a director with a good track record, a decent cast and a £100m+ budget but still ended up a disappointment so where does it go wrong? Is it at the script stage? The shooting stage, post-production. Is the fundamental way films are made at fault with disparate teams all doing different things at different times, shooting scenes out of sequence to blame?
At what point do the people making the film realise if what they are making is any good? Is it at the editing stage where they finally get to see all the footage they have shot and think "yes we've nailed this" or "oh oh, this looks s
t" (by which point I'd argue that it's already too late). Are the people involved in a film for months and months even able to be objective about it at this late stage? Do they even know (or care) that they are producing crap or is the pay cheque worth it. It just seems very strange to me that such a huge investment in time, manpower and money more often than not produces results which are more often than not, unsatisfactory.
There's loads of way a film can go off the rails, a lot of them are made by committee - I can only guess, but I think Prometheus suffered from that, Ridley Scott wanted to make a certain film and the studio wanted to make another, I seem to recall the Studio wanted a straight up Alien Prequel and they were happy to do it, but then they pushed out the Alien v Predator films and he didn't want it to just be another part of that and it made for a 10 year pre-production nightmare which resulted in a film of compromises - the second one could be great - you never know!So what goes wrong, at what stage does a film which in theory has all the right ingredients, loose the plot (no pun intended). Prometheus had a director with a good track record, a decent cast and a £100m+ budget but still ended up a disappointment so where does it go wrong? Is it at the script stage? The shooting stage, post-production. Is the fundamental way films are made at fault with disparate teams all doing different things at different times, shooting scenes out of sequence to blame?
At what point do the people making the film realise if what they are making is any good? Is it at the editing stage where they finally get to see all the footage they have shot and think "yes we've nailed this" or "oh oh, this looks s
t" (by which point I'd argue that it's already too late). Are the people involved in a film for months and months even able to be objective about it at this late stage? Do they even know (or care) that they are producing crap or is the pay cheque worth it. It just seems very strange to me that such a huge investment in time, manpower and money more often than not produces results which are more often than not, unsatisfactory.As for films in general, 'Hollywood' seems very risk adverse at the moment, they make a lot of middle of the road, general interest stuff that will likely make a few dollars. They used to say that only 10% of films make money, but a real blockbuster once a year was enough to keep a studio in the black - it was a risk game.
Not of course you can trust them when it comes to money, they'd make the most crooked Accountant blush with the way they structure things.
Production costs aren't always the biggest expense - the most extreme example I can think of is the Blair Witch Project - it cost $35,000. to film, $750,000. in post production and $25,000,000 to promote.
Waterworld which often comes up at times like this cost $172m to make and $63m to promote (total $235m) took $264m at the box office, better than a lot of films, but one thing they rarely mention is that 'box office' is gross - the Cinemas get about half of it, the Star, the Support Actors, Director and Producer might have a % of Gross deal too which gets added to the costs - so the more a film takes at the Cinema, the more it effectively cost to make! I've read in the past that some films get so battered about in pre-production that before they even film one scene it's effectively impossible for it to make any money from the Cinema release - it has to rely on DVD sales and TV rights to make money, maybe 5 years after it's finished - Waterworld was like that, yes it had a bad opening weekend in the US which saddled it with the 'flop' label - but it did okay outside the US, but still couldn't make any money until home release - which it did.
Guvernator said:
Prometheus was sh*t
Prometheus was sh*t
Prometheus was sh*t
Prometheus was sh*t
You get the idea
I am ever the optimist but unless they manage to perform a miracle, I have very little hope in them retrieving anything from the mess that was Prometheus.
I'll watch it anyway but green lantern scriptwriter does not fill me with much hope they can pull it out of the bag.Prometheus was sh*t
Prometheus was sh*t
Prometheus was sh*t
You get the idea
I am ever the optimist but unless they manage to perform a miracle, I have very little hope in them retrieving anything from the mess that was Prometheus.
I think they should just pretend Prometheus didn't happen and remake that and start again.
There is going to be a lot of convoluted shenanigans to make its all fit and make sense. But I live in hope.
JonRB said:
rhinochopig said:
Someone needs to ban you from this thread for your own good. You're a like a post-op labrador who just can't help but keep licking at where his testicles used to be. It would be a kindness - like a virtual vet's lampshade doohicky that dogs wear around their neck after an operation.
Well, at least Pesty found it funny even if you didn't. 
TTmonkey said:
garyhun said:
Halb said:
garyhun said:
A new Channel 4 drama called Humans.
It certainly got me interested. I like that clever way of advertising.Prometheus 3 and 4 may be on the cards - http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/prometheus/37043/p...
JonRBI rather like @Cyriak's breakdown of the original, which popped on my Twitter feed today : http://www.b3ta.com/links/815353
cianha said:
I rather like @Cyriak's breakdown of the original, which popped on my Twitter feed today : http://www.b3ta.com/links/815353
And people on here still rate this film. 
cianha said:
I rather like @Cyriak's breakdown of the original, which popped on my Twitter feed today : http://www.b3ta.com/links/815353
Genius. 
MartG said:
Only took a month for someone to notice I know, but I just spotted it's going to be called Alien: Paradise Lose - two Alien films in the same year? I wonder if they'll sing from the same hymn sheet or ignore each other. P-Jay said:
MartG said:
Only took a month for someone to notice I know, but I just spotted it's going to be called Alien: Paradise Lose - two Alien films in the same year? I wonder if they'll sing from the same hymn sheet or ignore each other. rhinochopig said:
I read that the other one is being delayed due to Ridley's offering. Personally I'd rather the Aliens 2.5 went first as that's what pretty much every fan has wanted after watching Alien 2 - more of the same with bigger guns, more marines and more aliens - possibly on Earth!.
The best film in the franchise IMO, just pipping the first film for me. They really scored an own goal not following on from the Aliens storyline. Alien 3 still pains me as it reminds me of what could have been.
rhinochopig said:
I read that the other one is being delayed due to Ridley's offering. Personally I'd rather the Aliens 2.5 went first as that's what pretty much every fan has wanted after watching Alien 2 - more of the same with bigger guns, more marines and more aliens - possibly on Earth!.
That seemed the most logical next step.One alien against small crew. Low scale horror.
City wide aliens against a small army. Mid-scale action horror.
Country/Earthwide infestation, full scale assault/defence. Apocalyptic epic horror, end of humanity s
tHumans travel to Alien world to kill the King Alien---interplanetary apocalyptic film, a great end to the franchise.
Halb said:
rhinochopig said:
I read that the other one is being delayed due to Ridley's offering. Personally I'd rather the Aliens 2.5 went first as that's what pretty much every fan has wanted after watching Alien 2 - more of the same with bigger guns, more marines and more aliens - possibly on Earth!.
That seemed the most logical next step.One alien against small crew. Low scale horror.
City wide aliens against a small army. Mid-scale action horror.
Country/Earthwide infestation, full scale assault/defence. Apocalyptic epic horror, end of humanity s
tHumans travel to Alien world to kill the King Alien---interplanetary apocalyptic film, a great end to the franchise.
Although I think Prometheus gets better with repeat viewings, it does suffer from the inevitable prequel problem that by explaining something you take away a lot of the terror
Negative Creep said:
I'd actually say the opposite is true - it needs to go back to basics. If anyone has played Alien: Isolation it went back to you surviving against a single, invincible Alien who would relentlessly hunt you. As a result it made the Xeno scary again, instead of the cannon fodder it is in other games and films of the franchise.
Isolation was the game the next movie should have been. I reckon it helped them decide to do a new film. Great story and a great atmosphere, proper terrifying. Looks even worse with Occulus Rift!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBhLo4eV1U
RobGT81 said:
Negative Creep said:
I'd actually say the opposite is true - it needs to go back to basics. If anyone has played Alien: Isolation it went back to you surviving against a single, invincible Alien who would relentlessly hunt you. As a result it made the Xeno scary again, instead of the cannon fodder it is in other games and films of the franchise.
Isolation was the game the next movie should have been. I reckon it helped them decide to do a new film. Great story and a great atmosphere, proper terrifying. Looks even worse with Occulus Rift!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBhLo4eV1U
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