Discussion
Nightmare said:
Guvernator said:
They should have introduced a new character with the ability to truely notch up the threat level to one worthy of squaring off against the Avengers.
He is supposed to be a GOD!Superman Returns for example suffered from the same problem IMO. Lex Luthor really isn't a viable threat as far as I am concerned (without falling back to the obvious Kryptonite cliche). I just prefer my superheroes to be presented with a real stand up fight, after all we pay the ticket price to see them kick-ass, not try to outhink the villain which is a scenario which can happen in any other non superhero movie.
Guvernator said:
Oh I agree that the potential is their, it's just that in Thor the movie he never felt truely threatening to me. The standoff between Thor and the Metal Guardian thingy was far more dramatic then the end confrontion with Loki IMO. Loki is more about guile and being tricky rather than out and out confrontation which is very tricky to pull off in a superhero movie as the character usually ends up seeming week.
Superman Returns for example suffered from the same problem IMO. Lex Luthor really isn't a viable threat as far as I am concerned (without falling back to the obvious Kryptonite cliche). I just prefer my superheroes to be presented with a real stand up fight, after all we pay the ticket price to see them kick-ass, not try to outhink the villain which is a scenario which can happen in any other non superhero movie.
I couldn't agree more. I loved Thor but found Loki some how lacking as the villaan. I think the character was also a little ambiguous not an out and out bad guy.Superman Returns for example suffered from the same problem IMO. Lex Luthor really isn't a viable threat as far as I am concerned (without falling back to the obvious Kryptonite cliche). I just prefer my superheroes to be presented with a real stand up fight, after all we pay the ticket price to see them kick-ass, not try to outhink the villain which is a scenario which can happen in any other non superhero movie.
I'm really trying not to get overly excited about this movie. They've been promoting it for ages and people's expectations will be high.
Downey Jnr will no doubt steel the show and even in the trailer he's got the best lines. Hopefully the likes of Thor and esepcially the Hulk won't just be used as the muscle.
Guvernator said:
Oh I agree that the potential is their, it's just that in Thor the movie he never felt truely threatening to me. The standoff between Thor and the Metal Guardian thingy was far more dramatic then the end confrontion with Loki IMO. Loki is more about guile and being tricky rather than out and out confrontation which is very tricky to pull off in a superhero movie as the character usually ends up seeming week.
Superman Returns for example suffered from the same problem IMO. Lex Luthor really isn't a viable threat as far as I am concerned (without falling back to the obvious Kryptonite cliche). I just prefer my superheroes to be presented with a real stand up fight, after all we pay the ticket price to see them kick-ass, not try to outhink the villain which is a scenario which can happen in any other non superhero movie.
all very good points and agree entirely.Superman Returns for example suffered from the same problem IMO. Lex Luthor really isn't a viable threat as far as I am concerned (without falling back to the obvious Kryptonite cliche). I just prefer my superheroes to be presented with a real stand up fight, after all we pay the ticket price to see them kick-ass, not try to outhink the villain which is a scenario which can happen in any other non superhero movie.
but....in Thor i think the idea was to develop Loki along the lines of 'initially jealous and somewhat amoral brother' to 'not actually Asgardian at all and f**k em I can have the power' (bit anakin to vader with less highly-improbable child butchery). Seeing as they were all gods he wasn't remotely scary physically...but then he wasn't meant to be?
I think they'll play him as not even considering mortals to be a relevant equal or threat - which could actually make him very scary as a 'baddie for earth' And they can always use the 'its much harder being a goodie battling on earth as you're supposed to pay attention to collateral damage. This limits your right to use you ultra-mega super destructor cannon. and saves us a fortune in CGI)' thing.....
Superman returns sucked for many, many reasons IMO but 100% agree on the baddie front - but he was human and only an army of 3 or so (and they still kicked him around!) Superman has always been a bit of problem like that though (as i think i said earlier). the old FtL / invincibility gig does rather render threats a bit irrelevant.
Nightmare said:
all very good points and agree entirely.
but....in Thor i think the idea was to develop Loki along the lines of 'initially jealous and somewhat amoral brother' to 'not actually Asgardian at all and f**k em I can have the power' (bit anakin to vader with less highly-improbable child butchery). Seeing as they were all gods he wasn't remotely scary physically...but then he wasn't meant to be?
I think they'll play him as not even considering mortals to be a relevant equal or threat - which could actually make him very scary as a 'baddie for earth' And they can always use the 'its much harder being a goodie battling on earth as you're supposed to pay attention to collateral damage. This limits your right to use you ultra-mega super destructor cannon. and saves us a fortune in CGI)' thing.....
Superman returns sucked for many, many reasons IMO but 100% agree on the baddie front - but he was human and only an army of 3 or so (and they still kicked him around!) Superman has always been a bit of problem like that though (as i think i said earlier). the old FtL / invincibility gig does rather render threats a bit irrelevant.
Yep making your heroes overpowered does make it tough to introduce the conflict drama I agree but I'd prefer it if they took the harder approach. Rather than taking the easy way out and using some naff plot device to weaken the hero and make him vulnerable (which happens in almost every superhereo movie) I'd prefer it if they went for the tougher approach of actually giving the hero a viable threat on equal footing. Rather than "dumbing" the hero down, make the villian just as strong, that way we get to see the superhuman fireworks rather than the "struggling with their humanity" angst that too many of these films seem to devolve into. If I wanted to watch angst\drama I could watch a soap on telly. but....in Thor i think the idea was to develop Loki along the lines of 'initially jealous and somewhat amoral brother' to 'not actually Asgardian at all and f**k em I can have the power' (bit anakin to vader with less highly-improbable child butchery). Seeing as they were all gods he wasn't remotely scary physically...but then he wasn't meant to be?
I think they'll play him as not even considering mortals to be a relevant equal or threat - which could actually make him very scary as a 'baddie for earth' And they can always use the 'its much harder being a goodie battling on earth as you're supposed to pay attention to collateral damage. This limits your right to use you ultra-mega super destructor cannon. and saves us a fortune in CGI)' thing.....
Superman returns sucked for many, many reasons IMO but 100% agree on the baddie front - but he was human and only an army of 3 or so (and they still kicked him around!) Superman has always been a bit of problem like that though (as i think i said earlier). the old FtL / invincibility gig does rather render threats a bit irrelevant.
Sure have the character development in their to build up the connection with the audience but the end pay off has to be the big standoff between hero and villian. Too many superhero movies of late seem to be rather anti-climatic. Thor is a perfect example, the beginning\middle of the movie was much better than the ending which seemed to flag quite badly for me.
yeah I struggle to argue with that.....kinda how i feel too. though you can go the other way - a la 'fantastic four' and create a baddie who for no good reason gets significantly more power to himself than any one of the others (despite having the same reason for getting said powers) which therefore forces the teamwork thing. always thought that was a bit lazy.
dunno tho....I have recently really enjoyed the ones which showed that whilst the powers are cool and fun, it doesnt alter the rest of your world or life - think Captain America did a really good job with that. bad things happening are still bad. I wonder if the reason comic superheroes werent popular for a goodly time is that they were perceived as just being about kapow stylee fighting between improbable beings....and just kids themes of good vs evil in brightly coloured battle.
but yeah I like my baddies to be properly kick-ass too
dunno tho....I have recently really enjoyed the ones which showed that whilst the powers are cool and fun, it doesnt alter the rest of your world or life - think Captain America did a really good job with that. bad things happening are still bad. I wonder if the reason comic superheroes werent popular for a goodly time is that they were perceived as just being about kapow stylee fighting between improbable beings....and just kids themes of good vs evil in brightly coloured battle.
but yeah I like my baddies to be properly kick-ass too
A full (kick-ass) trailer has been released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPoHPNeU9fc
SpeedBash said:
A full (kick-ass) trailer has been released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPoHPNeU9fc
It's official... I am insanely excited for this!
SpeedBash said:
A full (kick-ass) trailer has been released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPoHPNeU9fc
Is it wrong that I got a bit of a stiffy watching that? So frikking excited by this film!!!Nightmare said:
I think they'll play him as not even considering mortals to be a relevant equal or threat - which could actually make him very scary as a 'baddie for earth' And they can always use the 'its much harder being a goodie battling on earth as you're supposed to pay attention to collateral damage. This limits your right to use you ultra-mega super destructor cannon. and saves us a fortune in CGI)' thing.....
Optimus Prime VS Megatron in Transformers 1, the end fight between them. Prime can't go all out for the risk of killing humans.As for the new trailer, I'm kinda speechless.
Edited by stew-S160 on Thursday 1st March 08:02
Halb said:
Guvernator said:
ChipsAndCheese said:
New trailer, and new name in the UK too - Avengers Assemble. Should stop/lessen the confusion with the other Avengers.
Really?? AA?? That sounds a bit...err..sh*t!Guvernator said:
Hmm didn't realise that as I haven't read any Avengers comics but from that perspective i.e general public who don't read comics I think it sounds very cheesy. Still as long as the film lives up to expectations, they can call it whatever they like.
When they say it you know the s
ts going down!...or something[/American]
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