Oi! Derren Brown! NO!
Discussion
20 mins into the "luck" episode, 3rd set of adverts. What he has proved so far is that people who think they have good luck, and who play skill games for longer and with more concentration win more.....great. I'm sure the next 55 mins will carry on the same with psudo scientific / phsycological explanations for pretty normal obvious stuff, followed by a ridiculous ending.
Dizeee said:
I can't work out how on earth that dice managed to show what it was supposed to on the 3rd roll. HOW?
I just caught the end of the 'show' tonight, just when a dice was dropped down a chute and guessed it would be 4 that it would show when it landed at the bottom. Don't know how or why, just came into my mind, I said out loud, that'll be a 4!Am I speshul too? Where's my 6 grand?
Did I miss anything in the first 56 mins of the show?
Edited by JM on Saturday 12th November 00:01
Very ordinary tonight wasn't it - yep, people who are generally optimistic and outgoing take more chances and interact more so find/take more opportunities. Hardly groundbreaking.
Essentially the whole experiment was a selection exercise, to find the worst pessimist/most insular person in the town. Fairly predictable that after meeting DB and being shown the error of his ways he would over-compensate and participate in the grand finale.
However, £1000 of life savings is still pretty timid stuff! And we have no way of knowing if DB tipped him a wink that whoever was selected couldn't possibly lose. You'll note DB just selected his form, he didn't say it was the biggest gamble, but drew your attention to the 'life savings' comment. You'll also notice throughout how DB was prepared to lie to maintain the program (with the press etc.).
So the whole show came down to a very basic trick - a dice coming up with the required number on the required throw, which I don't think would fool Penn and Teller!
Essentially the whole experiment was a selection exercise, to find the worst pessimist/most insular person in the town. Fairly predictable that after meeting DB and being shown the error of his ways he would over-compensate and participate in the grand finale.
However, £1000 of life savings is still pretty timid stuff! And we have no way of knowing if DB tipped him a wink that whoever was selected couldn't possibly lose. You'll note DB just selected his form, he didn't say it was the biggest gamble, but drew your attention to the 'life savings' comment. You'll also notice throughout how DB was prepared to lie to maintain the program (with the press etc.).
So the whole show came down to a very basic trick - a dice coming up with the required number on the required throw, which I don't think would fool Penn and Teller!
Mr GrimNasty said:
Very ordinary tonight wasn't it - yep, people who are generally optimistic and outgoing take more chances and interact more so find/take more opportunities. Hardly groundbreaking.
Essentially the whole experiment was a selection exercise, to find the worst pessimist/most insular person in the town. Fairly predictable that after meeting DB and being shown the error of his ways he would over-compensate and participate in the grand finale.
However, £1000 of life savings is still pretty timid stuff! And we have no way of knowing if DB tipped him a wink that whoever was selected couldn't possibly lose. You'll note DB just selected his form, he didn't say it was the biggest gamble, but drew your attention to the 'life savings' comment. You'll also notice throughout how DB was prepared to lie to maintain the program (with the press etc.).
So the whole show came down to a very basic trick - a dice coming up with the required number on the required throw, which I don't think would fool Penn and Teller!
The butcher must have felt is was a sure win. With it being an entertaining show an all. I'd doubt the butcher will take every opportunity at winning money. Otherwise he'll get an abundance of calls from South Africa informing him of his winnings etc. I know how the trick worked. In fact some of Derren's tricks are the same, he's explained how he does them in previous shows over the years.Essentially the whole experiment was a selection exercise, to find the worst pessimist/most insular person in the town. Fairly predictable that after meeting DB and being shown the error of his ways he would over-compensate and participate in the grand finale.
However, £1000 of life savings is still pretty timid stuff! And we have no way of knowing if DB tipped him a wink that whoever was selected couldn't possibly lose. You'll note DB just selected his form, he didn't say it was the biggest gamble, but drew your attention to the 'life savings' comment. You'll also notice throughout how DB was prepared to lie to maintain the program (with the press etc.).
So the whole show came down to a very basic trick - a dice coming up with the required number on the required throw, which I don't think would fool Penn and Teller!
carmonk said:
Nobody has fully grasped it but surely even someone with zero knowledge of hypnosis would realise that these claims made by DB are bogus. If someone could be hypnotised into committing a murder (and by extension, any crime) then the world would be jam packed with Manchurian Candidates committing all manner of crimes for their masters. Yet this isn't the case. Why not? Because it's simply not possible.
I am not sure about jampacked, but there are assassinations, lots. I think there have been Manchurian candidates. I think Sirhan Sirhan is a good candidate.durbster said:
hairykrishna said:
Some persistence and editing would make that a laughably easy segment to film. How many times did he do it? How many times was the wallet picked up? How much time actually elapsed with a wallet there? You have no idea.
What makes you think this is so far-fetched that they'd need to bother with all that? And so what if they lost a few along the way - in fact it doesn't matter if it didn't even work. The point is that it's a psychology trick and not a magic trick, which is what you claim Brown has never done.I really don't see your issue with believing it; this is just simple human nature at work. It's no different to people accepting authority to a person in uniform, or a hi-vis jacket, or believing a sign that says "road closed".
Have you ever seen The Real Hustle? They use these sort of techniques all the time. There isn't anything mysterious and spiritual going on in the video, it's science.
If you're still unconvinced then this guy recreated it in one continuous camera shot.
I think you're taking the genuine psychological effect that people behave more honestly when they believe they're being watched and extrapolating it to a ridiculous degree. This effect is not key to this illusion IMO.
Wayne is my Butcher. He's just like that in life 
Go into his shop at 4:30 and ask for a trussed chicken and he'll tell you to "f
k off".
You have to like him though.
"Tony the pagan" is a mate of mine too. He's selling stloads of those staffs, so maybe there was something in the "lucky dog" or maybe he just wasn't actually trying to sell them before.
They can be used for pointing you know....piss has been taken
Go into his shop at 4:30 and ask for a trussed chicken and he'll tell you to "f
k off".You have to like him though.
"Tony the pagan" is a mate of mine too. He's selling s
tloads of those staffs, so maybe there was something in the "lucky dog" or maybe he just wasn't actually trying to sell them before.They can be used for pointing you know....piss has been taken
Dizeee said:
I can't work out how on earth that dice managed to show what it was supposed to on the 3rd roll. HOW?
I don't even study magic but I can think of several options.What about; DB has 7 dice, the normal one in his hand and six weighted dice around his person, weighted on numbers 1 to 6. When the audience choose 4, he palms the die weighted on the number 3. He gives the normal die to the bloke who throws it twice and gets a 2 and a 6. One the third throw DB switches the die for the weighted one and gives it to the bloke and lo and behold, a 4 shows up.
Regarding the rest of the show, 'meh' isn't the word. I'm struggling to think of anything impressive enough to warrant examination. Of course, the bit where the two publicans were asked for help with the car was fixed, little could be more obvious. Aside from the bizarre reasoning that someone who isn't lucky wouldn't help someone change a tyre, the woman appeared to forget what she was supposed to say and had almost walked off when she said something like, "Oh yeah, I have a pub." Oh, glad you mentioned that, because the whole point of this charade is that I come and do a gig there. Phew. Pull the other one.
Halb said:
carmonk said:
Nobody has fully grasped it but surely even someone with zero knowledge of hypnosis would realise that these claims made by DB are bogus. If someone could be hypnotised into committing a murder (and by extension, any crime) then the world would be jam packed with Manchurian Candidates committing all manner of crimes for their masters. Yet this isn't the case. Why not? Because it's simply not possible.
I am not sure about jampacked, but there are assassinations, lots. I think there have been Manchurian candidates. I think Sirhan Sirhan is a good candidate.Just some comments from "Tony the Pagan".
He helped to construct the chute (there were no hidden flaps or anything, as was suggested somewhere else).
The bowl it landed in was just a normal glass bowl.
DB didn't touch the die from the moment he handed it to Waynes Mrs til the end of the trick.
Wayne's Mrs took it out of the bowl and handed it to him in between each roll.
The third roll wasn't prerecorded for the monitor as has also been suggested as tony was in the front row and it did land on a 4 in the bowl.
Not for a moment suggesting it wasn't a trick, but it wasn't done as simply as suggested.
He helped to construct the chute (there were no hidden flaps or anything, as was suggested somewhere else).
The bowl it landed in was just a normal glass bowl.
DB didn't touch the die from the moment he handed it to Waynes Mrs til the end of the trick.
Wayne's Mrs took it out of the bowl and handed it to him in between each roll.
The third roll wasn't prerecorded for the monitor as has also been suggested as tony was in the front row and it did land on a 4 in the bowl.
Not for a moment suggesting it wasn't a trick, but it wasn't done as simply as suggested.
cazzer said:
Just some comments from "Tony the Pagan".
He helped to construct the chute (there were no hidden flaps or anything, as was suggested somewhere else).
The bowl it landed in was just a normal glass bowl.
DB didn't touch the die from the moment he handed it to Waynes Mrs til the end of the trick.
Wayne's Mrs took it out of the bowl and handed it to him in between each roll.
The third roll wasn't prerecorded for the monitor as has also been suggested as tony was in the front row and it did land on a 4 in the bowl.
Not for a moment suggesting it wasn't a trick, but it wasn't done as simply as suggested.
OK (assuming he's telling the truth and wasn't being fooled)...He helped to construct the chute (there were no hidden flaps or anything, as was suggested somewhere else).
The bowl it landed in was just a normal glass bowl.
DB didn't touch the die from the moment he handed it to Waynes Mrs til the end of the trick.
Wayne's Mrs took it out of the bowl and handed it to him in between each roll.
The third roll wasn't prerecorded for the monitor as has also been suggested as tony was in the front row and it did land on a 4 in the bowl.
Not for a moment suggesting it wasn't a trick, but it wasn't done as simply as suggested.
DB has 6 dice, not weighted but each with a piece of metal under every number (i.e. each die has 6 metal plates). The plates in each die weigh the same but one is magnetic whereas the others aren't. The audience choose 4. DB palms the die with the magnetic strip under the 4 and gives it to the bloke who throws the die twice and because it's not weighted, the results are random. One the third throw a magnet underneath the wooden base beneath the bowl is activated and this ensures the throw comes up a 4.
As for him helping build the chute, I'm sure he did, but no way could he have observed it for every single second from that point to its final usage.
Bedazzled said:
Not brilliant TV, but I thought it was impressive how quickly interest in the dog spread through the village, and how everyone started noticing good things happening to them; apart from Wayne of course. Some of the characters made me chuckle, especially Wayne when he saw the video of what he'd missed (looked genuinely gutted, imho) and the old bloke who said "yeah, it's been happening for years!"
So, did DB influence Wayne to go for it, using psychology? Or was he yet another stooge?
What psychology would you need to influence someone to bet their life's savings on the throw of a die? Perhaps a subtle suggestion that if they do so, they're not going to lose..?So, did DB influence Wayne to go for it, using psychology? Or was he yet another stooge?
Bedazzled said:
carmonk said:
Perhaps a subtle suggestion that if they do so, they're not going to lose..?
That's exactly what the video was... or are you suggesting a rather less subtle suggestion? If it was a dead cert, why only bet £1000?I'd guess that the suggestion went along the lines of
Producer: How about it then? You wager a grand on this trick Derren's going to do
Bloke: But I only have £250 in the bank
Producer: Don't worry about that. We'll sort it out.
Bloke: OK, but I can't really afford to lose anything
Producer: (pat on the back) We'll see you right, mate, don't you worry. All you have to do is throw a die
Bloke: But what if I lose?
Producer: This is TV, mate, you're not going to lose
Bloke: Er, OK
Bedazzled said:
'guess' is the right description... and yet you call it evidence. No need to mention confidentiality then? 
When did I call it evidence? And what confidentiality?Do you believe DB achieved his dice throwing through psychology? Or hypnotism? Did he use hypnotism to convince the butcher to wager his life savings on a die? I must have missed that bit, and yet someone must have spoken to him, the bloke didn't decide to do it himself. So who could it be? The producer perhaps? Seems logical to me. Or do you think it goes like this
Producer: My god this show's going to be dull. All you're doing is rolling a die.
DB: Yeah, the show is really s
t. I should have thought it through.Bloke: Hang on, I'm so shaken up by throwing away a scratch card and not answering a question about meat that I'm willing to bet my life's savings totalling one thousand quid that you can predict the throw of a die.
DB: Jesus Christ, man, are you mad?
Producer: Hang on a minute, that would make great TV. Butcher bloke, are you serious? You're willing to risk £1000 on a six to one shot?
Bloke: Sure, DB has taught me that I must grasp the moment and an 83.3% chance of losing all my money sounds like a great opportunity.
DB: Fantastic. Let's hope I can use psychology to make it work.
Bloke: Yes
Producer: Yes
Sounds reasonable to me.
PH, where having to wait 2 hours to edit a post matters
Edited by carmonk on Saturday 12th November 19:13
Bedazzled said:
Not brilliant TV, but I thought it was impressive how quickly interest in the dog spread through the village, and how everyone started noticing good things happening to them; apart from Wayne of course. Some of the characters made me chuckle, especially Wayne when he saw the video of what he'd missed (looked genuinely gutted, imho) and the old bloke who said "yeah, it's been happening for years!"
So, did DB influence Wayne to go for it, using psychology? Or was he yet another stooge?
Cazzer - any more local insight or reaction to the show? Is the lucky dog still being visited?
Wayne is a pretty genuine bloke. I would imagine that £1000 is his life savings as declared to HMRC So, did DB influence Wayne to go for it, using psychology? Or was he yet another stooge?
Cazzer - any more local insight or reaction to the show? Is the lucky dog still being visited?
Now, the scary bloke who runs the toyshop...well, lurks in the toyshop would be a better description. I could imagine him providing a dodgy dice if asked.
Tony is pretty convinced everything was above board, I'm happy to take is as a well performed trick.
I have been asked about the lucky dog a couple of times, but not recently, I can't remember if I was asked before the DB recording or not. (And no I haven't visited the said dog)
I missed it all happening at the time. The only thing I saw was the fireworks and that was out of the kitchen window.
We do have a lot of lesbians though, although they're not those nice film lesbians, they have more dungarees and doc martens.
Edited to add...
Edited by cazzer on Saturday 12th November 19:22
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