Star Wars eps. 1-3 - a change of view
Discussion
In fairness, some of the additions in the Special Editions improve things. Getting Ian McDiarmid to re-record the holographic representation of Emperor Palpatine in Ep5 was good for continuity. And in Ep4 having Han and Chewie run headlong into a room full of Stormtroopers rather than 3 or 4 made way more sense for them running away in fear. But that was probably about it. The rest was either neutral (MOAR X-Wings on the Death Star assault) or worse (throwing more s
t at the screen for you to look at when they visit Mos Eisley, the aforementioned scene with Jabba, messing around over Han shooting first, etc.)
t at the screen for you to look at when they visit Mos Eisley, the aforementioned scene with Jabba, messing around over Han shooting first, etc.)
JonRB said:
In fairness, some of the additions in the Special Editions improve things. Getting Ian McDiarmid to re-record the holographic representation of Emperor Palpatine in Ep5 was good for continuity.
I disagree with that. I prefer the dialogue in the first version.Before it was...ahem, 'corrected'.
edit.
Also as I type this it takes away from some of the magic of watching the first and best SW films.
Yes I know that a lot of people will know the 'big secret', but now Lucas has made his s
te first three and expects them to be watched in order there is no secret. No-one watching them for the first time will ever be punched in the stomach at the end of TESB. Similarly with Planet of the Apes...one of the issues of making 'prequels'.Edited by Halb on Monday 23 January 19:25
KB_S1 said:
The biggest revisionist crime was the snow beast on Hoth. A fantastic exercise in minimalist gripping tension (for a kids film) in the original, transformed into another SFX visual overload.
The poor one armed Wampa, life ruined for ever - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxAYii0TDSw
FourWheelDrift said:
The poor one armed Wampa, life ruined for ever - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxAYii0TDSw
Thanks ofr that never seen those beforef
king ewokshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IClol7wpFA
Pesty said:
Actually lol'd at that 
PW said:
The problem is that the originals end up being the story of Darth Vader's redemption, but the prequels never portray Anakin as a character worth redeeming.
Exactly! There is a huge disconnect between the two trilogies. In Ep4 you see Obi-Wan fondly reminiscing about Anakin, about how they were good friends and he was a great man, and an excellent pilot. And the in Ep5 that he was seduced by the Dark Side. Yet nothing in the prequels backs this up at all. And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Obi-Wan would have been pained to have remembered Anakin had events unfolded how they did in the prequels. Funk said:
That's the Plinkett review that we've mentioned loads of times. (Not saying that in a "that's a repost" sense. I meant that, in case anyone hadn't linked the name Plinkett to that link, that's what we've been talking about lots)
JonRB said:
PW said:
The problem is that the originals end up being the story of Darth Vader's redemption, but the prequels never portray Anakin as a character worth redeeming.
Exactly! There is a huge disconnect between the two trilogies. In Ep4 you see Obi-Wan fondly reminiscing about Anakin, about how they were good friends and he was a great man, and an excellent pilot. And the in Ep5 that he was seduced by the Dark Side. Yet nothing in the prequels backs this up at all. And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Obi-Wan would have been pained to have remembered Anakin had events unfolded how they did in the prequels. In fact rather than doing the prequels in a vain attempt to make all the pieces fit, he would have been better off doing sequels. Then George wouldn't have had to make up plot lines, little bits of trivia etc that even a 5 year old wouldn't believe.
Guvernator said:
A couple of other problems I have with the sequels, if they are pre the OT, why are the ships\technology so much better? Also the lightsabre duels are infinitely more skillful (if infinitely less dramatic) and please don't try to explain these things away with some lame excuse about equipment getting older or the jedi being in their prime blah blah. It isn't fooling anyone.
In fact rather than doing the prequels in a vain attempt to make all the pieces fit, he would have been better off doing sequels. Then George wouldn't have had to make up plot lines, little bits of trivia etc that even a 5 year old wouldn't believe.
Worst of those moments, as I've said before, was the fact that Padme Amidala died in childbirth, when we already have Luke and Leia clearly remembering her alive as young children in Return Of The Jedi. I get the impression the ending was deliberately couched to ensure that Anakin believed he'd caused her death, and so they could end it with visual links to the original films with shots of Tatooine and Alderan.In fact rather than doing the prequels in a vain attempt to make all the pieces fit, he would have been better off doing sequels. Then George wouldn't have had to make up plot lines, little bits of trivia etc that even a 5 year old wouldn't believe.
Guvernator said:
In fact rather than doing the prequels in a vain attempt to make all the pieces fit, he would have been better off doing sequels. Then George wouldn't have had to make up plot lines, little bits of trivia etc that even a 5 year old wouldn't believe.
Well, there's a good reason for that. To be officially licensed to write stuff for the Expanded Universe it has always been the rule that you could write for events after ROTJ onwards, or for the period way before the events of the prequels (as in thousands of years before). The timeframe of the sequels has always been off limits as George didn't want any Expanded Universe canon getting in the way of the prequels. And, consequently, the story of what happened after ROTJ is pretty well mapped out now.
So, given that, it would have been impossible to have done sequel films and would be equally impossible now. Unless it was to dramatise existing canonical stories from the Expanded Universe.
The Expanded Universe is what makes Star Wars so rich and immersive and why the games, comics and books work so well because they all HAVE to be consistent with each other and not contradict each other because those are the rules that LucasArts / LucasFilms made. And I have to say that's probably one of the few really good things George has done because it gives such a rich back story for fans to enjoy and for authors to work within.
Personally I would have liked the prequels to tell the story of the Clone Wars and the rise of the Emperor and the Empire, with Anakin's seduction by the Dark Side as a side plot just like Darth Vader himself was a side plot in the original films. Having the culmination of Ep3 as his "birth" limited the story so much and also made everything rushed at the end as Lucas tried to Duck Tape the two trilogies together in an incredibly ham-fisted way.
Twincam16 said:
Worst of those moments, as I've said before, was the fact that Padme Amidala died in childbirth, when we already have Luke and Leia clearly remembering her alive as young children in Return Of The Jedi. I get the impression the ending was deliberately couched to ensure that Anakin believed he'd caused her death, and so they could end it with visual links to the original films with shots of Tatooine and Alderan.
Yes indeed. This is part of the Duck Taping I was referring to. And that is indeed one of many horrible plot inconsistencies. Another one that really gets my goat is Obi-Wan not remembering having met R2-D2 and C-3PO before in Ep4. I mean, what? If the prequels had happened he'd have said "Oh god, not you two again!".
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 24th January 15:55
JonRB said:
Twincam16 said:
Worst of those moments, as I've said before, was the fact that Padme Amidala died in childbirth, when we already have Luke and Leia clearly remembering her alive as young children in Return Of The Jedi. I get the impression the ending was deliberately couched to ensure that Anakin believed he'd caused her death, and so they could end it with visual links to the original films with shots of Tatooine and Alderan.
Yes indeed. This is part of the Duck Taping I was referring to. And that is indeed one of many horrible plot inconsistencies. Another one that really gets my goat is Obi-Wan not remembering having met R2-D2 and C-3PO before in Ep4. I mean, what? If the prequels had happened he'd have said "Oh god, not you two again!".
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 24th January 15:55
Twincam16 said:
And see my comment earlier re. C-3P0. If he was a one-off built by Anakin, why are there loads of identical-looking protocol droids in the original films? It was almost as though they were desperate to show what a clever little boy Anakin was to the detriment of the plot. Same goes for the podracers, which was just a blatant plug for an inevitable spin-off computer game.
I find it hard to disagree with any of that. The worst thing is that if you look hard in one of the scenes at Watto's, he even has a protocol droid like C-3PO in the corner. Why couldn't Anakin have repaired that? And what on earth did Anakin's mother need a protocol droid for anyway? Anakin says he is building it to help his mum, but what she would need is a robot butler and handyman, not a robot who by his own admission is "little more than an interpreter".
Hope, it was, as you say, a way of showing Anakin was clever and gifted and also a way to get R2-D2 and C-3PO into the prequels. It didn't work.
And the less said about R2-D2 being able to fly the better.
especially when he seemed rather uncomfortable being flung through the air by various creatures in the original films.Funk said:
Lucas had a 'lucky hit' with the OT. He then tried other stuff that was rubbish, but for some reason, many were/are too polite to tell him he sucks.
More like too scared. I bet anyone who disagrees with him is sacked on the spot and marched off the premises by security with "you'll never work in this industry again!" ringing in their ears.FilmDrunk said:
Harrison Ford was responsible for the line “I love you” … “I know.”
At least Ford acknowledges that this was a great line. He and director Irvin Kershner fought Lucas for it. “Film is a collaborative process. I’m happy that I was able to make a small contribution. It didn’t go down so well with George at the time. He would have been a lot happier with the scripted line, which is ‘I love you, too,’ but I felt, and Kersh agreed, that there was the opportunity for a more character ’smelling’ moment. So we shot that among other versions. We did shoot ‘I love you, too,’ but when Kersh presented his cut, he used the line ‘I know.’ George said, ‘That’s gonna get a laugh. That’s not good.’ Kersh and I both said, ‘It could be a good laugh at that moment.’
“I love you.” “…I know,” = good laugh.
“Oh, Ani, how you’ve grown!” = bad laugh.
At least Ford acknowledges that this was a great line. He and director Irvin Kershner fought Lucas for it. “Film is a collaborative process. I’m happy that I was able to make a small contribution. It didn’t go down so well with George at the time. He would have been a lot happier with the scripted line, which is ‘I love you, too,’ but I felt, and Kersh agreed, that there was the opportunity for a more character ’smelling’ moment. So we shot that among other versions. We did shoot ‘I love you, too,’ but when Kersh presented his cut, he used the line ‘I know.’ George said, ‘That’s gonna get a laugh. That’s not good.’ Kersh and I both said, ‘It could be a good laugh at that moment.’
“I love you.” “…I know,” = good laugh.
“Oh, Ani, how you’ve grown!” = bad laugh.
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