Star Wars eps. 1-3 - a change of view
Discussion
Halb said:
Watched the last fight. I think I realised the reason why I hold the Yoda/Emperor fight as the only one worth watching in the prequels. It is is down to the backstory and choreography.
They're both characters from the originals, so we know who they are, what makes them tick, they have depth. They're both played by decent actors who actually act, and the fight is fierce. There is no baton twirling 'I'm a big ballet dancer type fanny prancing around like it's Christmas.' Juxtapose it with the Mace Windu fight from earlier where we get the fannying around, twirling, turning your back to you opponent in some choreographed X-Factor type dance. Yoda/Emps are just straight into it trying to t
t each other as quickly as possible.
Also I think because we learn more about characters, like Emps unwillingness to engage Yoda at first, and then going slightly nuts as he waxes his power. And Yoda actually kicking arse.
While I agree that fight definitely got some investment from me and its quite brutal compared to the rest, I'm not really sure that Yoda spinning round like a little Tasmanian devil really worked for me.They're both characters from the originals, so we know who they are, what makes them tick, they have depth. They're both played by decent actors who actually act, and the fight is fierce. There is no baton twirling 'I'm a big ballet dancer type fanny prancing around like it's Christmas.' Juxtapose it with the Mace Windu fight from earlier where we get the fannying around, twirling, turning your back to you opponent in some choreographed X-Factor type dance. Yoda/Emps are just straight into it trying to t
t each other as quickly as possible.Also I think because we learn more about characters, like Emps unwillingness to engage Yoda at first, and then going slightly nuts as he waxes his power. And Yoda actually kicking arse.
Sure it was quite a cool moment seeing this little guy pull out his light sabre but due to the massive size difference I don't think logistically, the duel really works. I'd have actually preferred it if they had forgone the light sabers altogether for Yoda and had him purely use the force to fight with. Would have made more sense for me at least.
Guvernator said:
While I agree that fight definitely got some investment from me and its quite brutal compared to the rest, I'm not really sure that Yoda spinning round like a little Tasmanian devil really worked for me.
Sure it was quite a cool moment seeing this little guy pull out his light sabre but due to the massive size difference I don't think logistically, the duel really works. I'd have actually preferred it if they had forgone the light sabers altogether for Yoda and had him purely use the force to fight with. Would have made more sense for me at least.
For me that scene was George Lucus pulling down his trousers, squatting over the original trilogy, and curling one off. Sure it was quite a cool moment seeing this little guy pull out his light sabre but due to the massive size difference I don't think logistically, the duel really works. I'd have actually preferred it if they had forgone the light sabers altogether for Yoda and had him purely use the force to fight with. Would have made more sense for me at least.
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship." said Yoda in Empire Strikes Back.
Also "Ohhh! Great warrior! [laughs and shakes his head] Wars not make one great!"
Yet, apparently size does matter. Because when you get down to an actual Lightsaber duel, size does matter. A 4ft long lightsaber is always going to have a much longer reach than an 1ft one. Simple mechanics. Yoda is at an immediate tactical disadvantage.
Same goes for "squid tentacles head guy". How did he keep all his head tentacles without slicing a few off?
As you say, it would have been better to have foregone lightsabers altogether for Yoda. Since "Size matters not"
(Acknowledgements to the Plinkett Reviews for many of these concepts)
Exactly, not seen the Plinket reviews but my first thought on seeing Yoda first pull out his light sabre was oh cool we get to see Yoda fight but then I immediately came back to my senses and thought, hang on a sec, this guy is 3 foot nothing with a little toy light sabre, how exactly is that going to work, and to be honest it didn't. Some of the scenes where he is directly facing off with Dooku or the Emperor just look ridiculous due to the size difference. The fact that both Christopher Lee and Ian McDiarmid are both quite old also does these fight scenes no favors, the Energizer Bunny vs the OAPS!
Like a lot of the content in the prequels, Lucas has put the scene in cynically in my view so that fan boys can say "oh look cool, Yoda uses his light saber" without actually thinking the logistics through.
I actually much preferred the latter half of the Yoda Vs Emperor fight when they fore go the light sabers altogether and start flinging stuff at each other using the force instead.
Like a lot of the content in the prequels, Lucas has put the scene in cynically in my view so that fan boys can say "oh look cool, Yoda uses his light saber" without actually thinking the logistics through.
I actually much preferred the latter half of the Yoda Vs Emperor fight when they fore go the light sabers altogether and start flinging stuff at each other using the force instead.
What about the failure of a Jedi standing next to Samuel LJ when they faced the Emperor and just allowed him to stab him with a simple straight thrust without any defence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
What stopped the other Jedi with the green sabre from cutting Palpatines arms off?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
What stopped the other Jedi with the green sabre from cutting Palpatines arms off?
FourWheelDrift said:
What about the failure of a Jedi standing next to Samuel LJ when they faced the Emperor and just allowed him to stab him with a simple straight thrust without any defence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
What stopped the other Jedi with the green sabre from cutting Palpatines arms off?
That scene is almost laughable and it makes me cringe. Ian was unable to carry out any really fancy moves or engage in extended fight scenes due to his age so why not just avoid this problem altogether by not having him use it. He could have easily used the force to take them out or something but no, instead we get an old man clumsily waving his walking stick around and taking out two Jedi Masters just by pointing his stick at them.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
What stopped the other Jedi with the green sabre from cutting Palpatines arms off?
JonRB said:
TheHeretic said:
Watching episode 4 now. Why the feckery-force doesn't Obi Wan recognise, or remember R2-D2?
Senior moment? 
No, seriously, I agree. You'd expect him to say "R2-D2?! That's not a name I've heard in a long time"
Senior moment indeed.
TheHeretic said:
Watching episode 4 now. Why the feckery-force doesn't Obi Wan recognise, or remember R2-D2?
Alzheimers.Or possibly the question to him was about owning a droid, which he correctly said he never did and there are lots of R2 units about and C3-PO units about too. But I still think it's Alzheimers.
I like this though, much better than it was.
Fan theories said:
Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi is OB-1, Clone Warrior
One of the most intriguing aspects of the original Star Wars trilogy was the brief mention of something called "The Clone Wars" -- in the first film, those three words alone are enough to change Luke's perception of Obi-Wan Kenobi from "cave-dwelling old creep" to "badass space warrior." The thing is, in those early movies they never actually told us what exactly the Clone Wars was, which somehow makes it sound even more epic: For over two decades, literally the only thing fans knew about it was that it involved clones and warring.
Of all the wild theories fans came up with during those cold, lonely Star Wars-less decades, there's one that stands out ...
Fan Theory
The "clones" were artificially grown Jedi, and Obi-Wan was one of them -- thus the clone designation "OB-1."
Picture this: Millions of cloned Jedi Knights battling across planets and spaceships in a badass whirlwind of laser-force space death. A "star war," if you will. It makes sense: If you had to clone someone to create an army of warriors, a powerful Jedi would be the most logical choice.
According to this theory, the name Obi-Wan Kenobi is actually a transliteration of his serial number: OB-1, first in a line of star-warring space wizards. In the first movie, Obi-Wan uses the alias "Ben Kenobi," supposedly because he's hiding from the Empire, but that doesn't really make sense: Why would you keep the same last name if you didn't want to be found? This would explain where the alias came from: It was the name of the original Jedi he was cloned from (and therefore his "father").
Oh, and it closes a gigantic plot hole in the prequels: The reason the old man Obi-Wan doesn't seem to remember any of the events of the prequels (such as not remembering having ever seen the droids before, or that Darth Vader built Threepio) is that the old man is just a clone. Also, imagine the awesomeness of the surprise ending they could have included in Episode II, in which the future Darth Vader starts his march toward evil by pushing the original Obi-Wan Kenobi off of one of those high walkways they apparently design into every spaceship.
What We Got Instead:
In Episode II: Attack of the Clones, we find out that the Clone Wars was actually a war between some crappy robots and ... an army of Boba Fetts. The Jedi are sort of standing in between, and then they're all killed by the Boba Fetts. Yeah.
As for Obi-Wan, he forgot all about R2-D2 and C-3PO after spending three whole movies with them because ... you know what, at this point we don't even care.
One of the most intriguing aspects of the original Star Wars trilogy was the brief mention of something called "The Clone Wars" -- in the first film, those three words alone are enough to change Luke's perception of Obi-Wan Kenobi from "cave-dwelling old creep" to "badass space warrior." The thing is, in those early movies they never actually told us what exactly the Clone Wars was, which somehow makes it sound even more epic: For over two decades, literally the only thing fans knew about it was that it involved clones and warring.
Of all the wild theories fans came up with during those cold, lonely Star Wars-less decades, there's one that stands out ...
Fan Theory
The "clones" were artificially grown Jedi, and Obi-Wan was one of them -- thus the clone designation "OB-1."
Picture this: Millions of cloned Jedi Knights battling across planets and spaceships in a badass whirlwind of laser-force space death. A "star war," if you will. It makes sense: If you had to clone someone to create an army of warriors, a powerful Jedi would be the most logical choice.
According to this theory, the name Obi-Wan Kenobi is actually a transliteration of his serial number: OB-1, first in a line of star-warring space wizards. In the first movie, Obi-Wan uses the alias "Ben Kenobi," supposedly because he's hiding from the Empire, but that doesn't really make sense: Why would you keep the same last name if you didn't want to be found? This would explain where the alias came from: It was the name of the original Jedi he was cloned from (and therefore his "father").
Oh, and it closes a gigantic plot hole in the prequels: The reason the old man Obi-Wan doesn't seem to remember any of the events of the prequels (such as not remembering having ever seen the droids before, or that Darth Vader built Threepio) is that the old man is just a clone. Also, imagine the awesomeness of the surprise ending they could have included in Episode II, in which the future Darth Vader starts his march toward evil by pushing the original Obi-Wan Kenobi off of one of those high walkways they apparently design into every spaceship.
What We Got Instead:
In Episode II: Attack of the Clones, we find out that the Clone Wars was actually a war between some crappy robots and ... an army of Boba Fetts. The Jedi are sort of standing in between, and then they're all killed by the Boba Fetts. Yeah.
As for Obi-Wan, he forgot all about R2-D2 and C-3PO after spending three whole movies with them because ... you know what, at this point we don't even care.
The thought the Yoda thing saying that size matters not shows that a small fella can go up against a big fella?
One of the best actors in the whole series.
te save for Mace then?
Silver Smudger said:
One of the best actors in the whole series.
FourWheelDrift said:
What about the failure of a Jedi standing next to Samuel LJ when they faced the Emperor and just allowed him to stab him with a simple straight thrust without any defence?http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pk4AiCnMqpg#t=39sWhat stopped the other Jedi with the green sabre from cutting Palpatines arms off?
That scene was annoying. Basically the Jedi are all ste save for Mace then?TheHeretic said:
Watching episode 4 now. Why the feckery-force doesn't Obi Wan recognise, or remember R2-D2?
I either forgot, or pushed it out of my memory, but at the end, only Threepio gets wiped...soooooo....Artoo knew all along? Everything, Luke's dad, the twins etc? And didn't tell Threepio or any other robot for twenty odd years....wow he's good at keeping secrets!!!!Halb said:
I either forgot, or pushed it out of my memory, but at the end, only Threepio gets wiped...soooooo....Artoo knew all along? Everything, Luke's dad, the twins etc? And didn't tell Threepio or any other robot for twenty odd years....wow he's good at keeping secrets!!!!
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