Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
There should be a minimum standard for all the major car controls that require no eyes off the road to operate.
It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
732NM said:
There should be a minimum standard for all the major car controls that require no eyes off the road to operate.
It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
Agreed It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
732NM said:
There should be a minimum standard for all the major car controls that require no eyes off the road to operate.
It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
Yes, it’s bizarre because this must make driving more dangerous not safer, yet there appears to be little or no regulation to control it. Still, I am not ready for an EV yet so it won’t affect me. At the moment anyway.It amazes me these ipad screens and ergonomically disastrous designs pass type appoval.
It's not long ago we were banned from using mobile phones whilst driving, yet cars have major functions that require the equivalent of texting.
Chasing Potatoes said:
RichB said:
Bizarre comment when the thread is chatting about Teslas. 
The thread is about Harry’s reviews rather than entirely unrelated articles. As you can already see anything to do with an EV will descend into the usual binary ones. As for Trumpton, sadly he has form for posting anti-EV rhetoric wherever he can. So there’s a choice. Let this thread go that way, or talk about the actual reviews and content thereof.
Edited by Chasing Potatoes on Sunday 21st April 21:01
Edited by Chasing Potatoes on Sunday 21st April 21:02
ArgonautX said:
trumpton7291 said:
The whole EV market is... Most consumers don't want them, the infrastructure in most of the world is insufficient, they do not hold value and they risk being obsolete in a few years.Another more Tesla specific issue is that unlike Chinese competitors they don't bring out new models every week so are losing some sales in that regard.
And it doesn't help Tesla stock that the owner slung a large chunk in as collateral for his silly temper tantrum purchase of Twitter and has almost certainly had a call for more collateral. Plus, TSLA isn't an AI stock so isn't getting the inflow of mug money as that's all going elsewhere currently.
The key is that in the Western markets they have the product margins to take sales from the likes of VW et al and as they don't hold all their used cars on their own balance sheet can discount and let current owners and third party lenders take the hit if needs be.
There's a clear out due of EV manufacturers, mostly a block of the 100 odd Chinese brands but Tesla have passed the point where it'll be a long term issue for them. The developed nations are still migrating to EV over the next 30 years and the basic Tesla product is still a market leader.
12TS said:
Luke. said:
They're still £39,990 on the site.
Found it. My bad. Model Y interestingly cheaper on PCH than a Model 2 by £100 per month if I have got it right
It seems as though, from Harry’s Farm vid report on food security, that the intention of the government is to make meat more unaffordable and push the population into eating more greens, pulses and meat substitutes. It’s going to about turn pretty hard when the facts surrounding ultra processed foods becomes commonplace knowledge.
The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
bolidemichael said:
It seems as though, from Harry’s Farm vid report on food security, that the intention of the government is to make meat more unaffordable and push the population into eating more greens, pulses and meat substitutes. It’s going to about turn pretty hard when the facts surrounding ultra processed foods becomes commonplace knowledge.
The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
Greens and pulses aren't UPFs.The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
'meat substitute' can have more than one definition.
And the UK government wasn't alone in promoting diesel.
But I agree that the current wrong-headed policies are bonkers.
Good review on the Tesla - I have a 3LR and I'd say Harry's view is pretty accurate.
Hard to beat as a cheap to run, reliable, fast and comfortable A to B car - it suits 99.9% of my driving.
Tomorrow I have a whole day set aside to get a V8 serviced, there will be a dozen little faults no doubt and I'm expecting the usual large bill. No servicing required for the Tesla - or frequent visits to the petrol station (the V8 can do around 200 miles before needing more fuel).
Horses for courses and, as always, the most vociferous anti EV commentators, have never owned one.
Hard to beat as a cheap to run, reliable, fast and comfortable A to B car - it suits 99.9% of my driving.
Tomorrow I have a whole day set aside to get a V8 serviced, there will be a dozen little faults no doubt and I'm expecting the usual large bill. No servicing required for the Tesla - or frequent visits to the petrol station (the V8 can do around 200 miles before needing more fuel).
Horses for courses and, as always, the most vociferous anti EV commentators, have never owned one.
I have no desire to own a Tesla and Harry’s video confirms my opinion that it is like buying a really expensive microwave oven with tons of features you will never use and controls that are confusing. I suppose it must have some sort of personality but it seems difficult to pin down what that might be. I think the lack of traditional controls and switchgear would bother me, and the centre screen would drive me mad. Harry was a bit too kind in his assessment of it, I think. And those standard wheels are possibly the ugliest I have ever seen. I’d have to get them resprayed in silver on the way home.
I think the point that Harry was getting at is that the Tesla is so much more efficient than other EV’s at the moment. Why? What have other manufacturers got so wrong, especially the legacy brands? It can’t just be weight and aerodynamics, can it? I know that Mercedes have a prototype (as driven by Harry in Italy last year) that is 50% more efficient again, but for now, why are legacy manufacturers so far behind?
dobly said:
I think the point that Harry was getting at is that the Tesla is so much more efficient than other EV’s at the moment. Why? What have other manufacturers got so wrong, especially the legacy brands? It can’t just be weight and aerodynamics, can it? I know that Mercedes have a prototype (as driven by Harry in Italy last year) that is 50% more efficient again, but for now, why are legacy manufacturers so far behind?
Merc used cell grading to get the numbers so they're largely irrelevant as it's not remotely cost effective to be grading cells for generic road cars. I suspect there are numerous small reasons as to why Tesla's appear notably more efficient but firstly their needs to be some discounting with regards to the BMW and the Lotus that Harry references as they have a performance focus for their consumers whereas the model 3 really is a white goods commuter car more focussed on frugality. It does its performance party trick but the ethos of the product is about economy whereas with the Lotus it's not. So for a fair comparison we would need to contrast against other white goods EVs which focus on costs so things like the Korean stuff or other Chinese cars like MG etc.
Aero is going to play a part, cheaper, simpler builds and materials, better deals with Chinese battery suppliers and I suspect a really important one is superior BMS tech. Companies like BMW seriously struggle with IT whereas Tesla exists as a function of it. If anyone is going to get the best performance out a box of randomly selected and varying cells then money would be on Tesla over companies that struggle to get lights to work. Data must also play a part. Tesla have such a vast amount of user data on everything that they can optimise things to the nth degree. In terms of data only the Chinese firms can match I suspect.
Doofus said:
bolidemichael said:
It seems as though, from Harry’s Farm vid report on food security, that the intention of the government is to make meat more unaffordable and push the population into eating more greens, pulses and meat substitutes. It’s going to about turn pretty hard when the facts surrounding ultra processed foods becomes commonplace knowledge.
The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
Greens and pulses aren't UPFs.The government is always behind the curve on trends, as it was by encouraging everyone to buy diesels, back in the day.
'meat substitute' can have more than one definition.
And the UK government wasn't alone in promoting diesel.
But I agree that the current wrong-headed policies are bonkers.
The UK government wasn’t alone, but it was aligned and post Brexit is now responsible for handling its own subsidies for farming. Now, Harry will be producing 1/3 of the food that he would’ve done two years previously.
We’ve already seen that we’re happy to import oilseed rape which is from countries that have no restrictions on pesticides to control cabbage stem flea beetle and other such pests; however, we curtail our own food security by abolishing domestic use of established pesticides.
Edited for speeling
Edited by bolidemichael on Monday 22 April 11:01
dobly said:
I think the point that Harry was getting at is that the Tesla is so much more efficient than other EV’s at the moment. Why? What have other manufacturers got so wrong, especially the legacy brands? It can’t just be weight and aerodynamics, can it? I know that Mercedes have a prototype (as driven by Harry in Italy last year) that is 50% more efficient again, but for now, why are legacy manufacturers so far behind?
Most legacy manufactures use non-specialized or both EV and ICE capable platforms that probably weigh more. My theory is that most legacy manufacturers are of the opinion that it is still too early to invest heavily into EVs and they're biding their time. Most of them produce EVs so that they can lower their fleet averages, not to make money on them.
DonkeyApple said:
Merc used cell grading to get the numbers so they're largely irrelevant as it's not remotely cost effective to be grading cells for generic road cars.
I suspect there are numerous small reasons as to why Tesla's appear notably more efficient but firstly their needs to be some discounting with regards to the BMW and the Lotus that Harry references as they have a performance focus for their consumers whereas the model 3 really is a white goods commuter car more focussed on frugality. It does its performance party trick but the ethos of the product is about economy whereas with the Lotus it's not. So for a fair comparison we would need to contrast against other white goods EVs which focus on costs so things like the Korean stuff or other Chinese cars like MG etc.
Aero is going to play a part, cheaper, simpler builds and materials, better deals with Chinese battery suppliers and I suspect a really important one is superior BMS tech. Companies like BMW seriously struggle with IT whereas Tesla exists as a function of it. If anyone is going to get the best performance out a box of randomly selected and varying cells then money would be on Tesla over companies that struggle to get lights to work. Data must also play a part. Tesla have such a vast amount of user data on everything that they can optimise things to the nth degree. In terms of data only the Chinese firms can match I suspect.
Yet the Tesla truck's accelerator apparently doesn't work properly.I suspect there are numerous small reasons as to why Tesla's appear notably more efficient but firstly their needs to be some discounting with regards to the BMW and the Lotus that Harry references as they have a performance focus for their consumers whereas the model 3 really is a white goods commuter car more focussed on frugality. It does its performance party trick but the ethos of the product is about economy whereas with the Lotus it's not. So for a fair comparison we would need to contrast against other white goods EVs which focus on costs so things like the Korean stuff or other Chinese cars like MG etc.
Aero is going to play a part, cheaper, simpler builds and materials, better deals with Chinese battery suppliers and I suspect a really important one is superior BMS tech. Companies like BMW seriously struggle with IT whereas Tesla exists as a function of it. If anyone is going to get the best performance out a box of randomly selected and varying cells then money would be on Tesla over companies that struggle to get lights to work. Data must also play a part. Tesla have such a vast amount of user data on everything that they can optimise things to the nth degree. In terms of data only the Chinese firms can match I suspect.
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