Westworld (NO SPOILERS)
Discussion
rasto said:
Still as gripping as ever for me, I thought that was a great episode. Loved the Japanese story with all the parallels.
Got to admit, I missed most of the parallels but I'd had a few drinks before watching.All in all, thought this was the weakest of the current season. They must have spent quite a bit extra on setting up the Shogunworld set and costumes (which looked superb) but I thought that it didn't really add much to the story. Maybe it will come in to play more, later on.
I binged watched two edits ( Part 1 and Part 2) of all of the peerless Sir Anthony Hopkins scenes in Westworld season 1, and I came away thinking - again - that the show is definitely badly missing his presence.
It is also missing some of the rich philosophical dialogue that was in season 1. Hopkins pulled that stuff off with aplomb, so I don't know if it's absent because no one else has the chops to do it. I miss the scenes Hopkins and Wright had together, e.g. this magnificent one.
Maeve turning into Neo and Dolores's interminable meandering don't compare.
It is also missing some of the rich philosophical dialogue that was in season 1. Hopkins pulled that stuff off with aplomb, so I don't know if it's absent because no one else has the chops to do it. I miss the scenes Hopkins and Wright had together, e.g. this magnificent one.
Maeve turning into Neo and Dolores's interminable meandering don't compare.
I liked seeing more of Maeve's story as it's far more interesting than Dolores. I did think they expected us to care about the new characters a bit more than I could given how new to me they were. Build them up for an episode or two first, I wasn't emotionally invested enough yet to care about the danger they were in.
D-Angle said:
I liked seeing more of Maeve's story as it's far more interesting than Dolores. I did think they expected us to care about the new characters a bit more than I could given how new to me they were. Build them up for an episode or two first, I wasn't emotionally invested enough yet to care about the danger they were in.
Problem is, for me, is that making Maeve like Neo is that where do you go from there? Now that she can control them with her mind (essentially), she's basically a God. There is no clear indication of why it is possible, why she specifically can do it, other than it looking cool on screen. Her being able to ignore commands to cease all motor functions was interesting, but now it feels excessive.Durzel said:
Problem is, for me, is that making Maeve like Neo is that where do you go from there? Now that she can control them with her mind (essentially), she's basically a God. There is no clear indication of why it is possible, why she specifically can do it, other than it looking cool on screen. Her being able to ignore commands to cease all motor functions was interesting, but now it feels excessive.
Ford is the god controlling it all still. None of the hosts are doing anything he hasn't programmed them to do, it's all to do with his new narrative.She is using the local host network where hosts can network to the closest host or hosts, the one Bernard used to find Abernathy in episode 2.
D-Angle said:
I liked seeing more of Maeve's story as it's far more interesting than Dolores. I did think they expected us to care about the new characters a bit more than I could given how new to me they were. Build them up for an episode or two first, I wasn't emotionally invested enough yet to care about the danger they were in.
Yes. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to like Delores or not? Maeve's story is far more interesting to me. Maybe it's because I don't really know/understand what Delores is trying to do? Get out of the park? Doesn't really seem like it, more just some sort of rampage.Maeve still has no more power (much less in fact) than Ford did. He could make the entire world dance to his tune without a single word, plus he could remake the landscape.
And on top of this he still seems to be out there in some form pulling strings - remember 'Ford' suiciding that entire gang/town?
It'd be interesting to see if they go far into the 'power corrupts' thing. Ford at least cared about his creations. Maeve merrily destroys and manipulates her fellow androids to suit her own ends. Maybe there's a conscience developing (actual care developing in place of the coldness) but she's still doing a lot of slaughter for the sake of it.
Dolores meanwhile is the great freedom fighter with no genuine morals or cares; the ends justify the means. For whatever reason it's a total perversion of the original character. The only question is whether what she's doing is intentional by her creator and what exactly she is trying to achieve.
The ultimate failure of the parks creators was building machines that could be stronger, faster and smarter than they were. Don't make the brain dial go up to 20 if you don't want to find out what happens when you tweak the knob.
Might also have helped if they'd kept a few hosts aside for security with the dials all turned up but absolute loyalty programmed in.
And on top of this he still seems to be out there in some form pulling strings - remember 'Ford' suiciding that entire gang/town?
It'd be interesting to see if they go far into the 'power corrupts' thing. Ford at least cared about his creations. Maeve merrily destroys and manipulates her fellow androids to suit her own ends. Maybe there's a conscience developing (actual care developing in place of the coldness) but she's still doing a lot of slaughter for the sake of it.
Dolores meanwhile is the great freedom fighter with no genuine morals or cares; the ends justify the means. For whatever reason it's a total perversion of the original character. The only question is whether what she's doing is intentional by her creator and what exactly she is trying to achieve.
The ultimate failure of the parks creators was building machines that could be stronger, faster and smarter than they were. Don't make the brain dial go up to 20 if you don't want to find out what happens when you tweak the knob.
Might also have helped if they'd kept a few hosts aside for security with the dials all turned up but absolute loyalty programmed in.
Durzel said:
Problem is, for me, is that making Maeve like Neo is that where do you go from there? Now that she can control them with her mind (essentially), she's basically a God. There is no clear indication of why it is possible, why she specifically can do it, other than it looking cool on screen. Her being able to ignore commands to cease all motor functions was interesting, but now it feels excessive.
It has been planted. THere was chat earlier on how hosts were sharing info when they were in vicinity of each other, I can't recall who said it, or when, a lot of stuff gets said. It's subconscious, Maeve with her awakening has managed to consciously utilise it, possibly without knowing what she is doing, like a jedi or any other skill one has to practise to accomplish. So I don't think it's controlling, also, it quite possiblut only works on the weak/unwakened conscious. Maeve and Lee both knew they were in trouble when they realised the shogun leader was simply faulty and not 'alive.'One thing that has been confusing me, maybe because it's actually deliberate is Armistice's arm. Hosts are now made organically, yet Armistice has what looks like a carbon fibre arm, there was that little strange end of series 1 post credit scene of her cutting her arm off to escape the door here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uk5Aj-HabA so...where did she get the arm from and who fitted it for her? It makes the end of series 1 scene more than just an "oh she cut her arm off" ending.
What I can't understand is Maeve is searching for her daughter. The daughter may or may not be 'free' like Maeve and probably won't even remember who Maeve is. Lets assume that the daughter is 'free', what happens then?
It's not like the Hosts age so Maeve will have a daughter that never grows up, never ages, just the same as Maeve wouldn't grow old. I'm assuming this is the case considering Delores looked the same for at least 35 years - from when they were using her at investment parties to looking the same in the time period after 35 years of trying to get the old guy to work in a host.
It's not like the Hosts age so Maeve will have a daughter that never grows up, never ages, just the same as Maeve wouldn't grow old. I'm assuming this is the case considering Delores looked the same for at least 35 years - from when they were using her at investment parties to looking the same in the time period after 35 years of trying to get the old guy to work in a host.
chris watton said:
Well, if they never get old, this cannot run for too many multiple seasons. Look how heavy they had to slap on the make up on Data in TNG in the final seasons and movies, to try and make him look the same age, which was laughable...
Meanwhile 
I think Westworld probably has plan, maybe 3 or 4 series. They could start a new series based on a different park and a different story-line occurring before current Westworld or after it's all been fixed.
Didn’t do much for me this one. Thought we might have turned a corner after last week.
They seem to be stretching out the story in such a way as to make it more complicated to follow but without really tying the elements together.
If you look at property great drama like The Sooranos or The Wire they build their narrative slowly and deliberately and plant the beginnings of large story arcs constantly and often in, seemely, innocuous dealings.
This season just hasn’t been doing that at all. It is most as if they sat down and decided how to make the show more complicated than the first season and not how to best tell the story (what ever it is).
They seem to be stretching out the story in such a way as to make it more complicated to follow but without really tying the elements together.
If you look at property great drama like The Sooranos or The Wire they build their narrative slowly and deliberately and plant the beginnings of large story arcs constantly and often in, seemely, innocuous dealings.
This season just hasn’t been doing that at all. It is most as if they sat down and decided how to make the show more complicated than the first season and not how to best tell the story (what ever it is).
I'm wondering if having the whole park go into meltdown at the end of S1 was the best decision. It could have been more interesting to have it break down slowly, hosts 'waking up' and going off loop and leaving the population centres to avoid capture, Delos losing control of small sections of the park and having to cede control to the hosts in small areas, leading to a kind of guerilla war for control etc.
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