Game of Thrones - vol II - NO SPOILERS
Discussion
But there have been predictions about future events haven't there? Don't the fire god people see stuff, I'm sure Melisandre has made several predictions that have come true. I even think Clegane might have seen stuff about the future.
Also we've had predictions about Cersei's future from a witch that came true and the prophecy about a prince that will rule all as been mentioned a few times hasn't it so I'm sure predicting the future is something that we've seen albeit somewhat cryptically.
Perhaps the Night King has the power too, it would certainly explain the otherwise rather fortuitous acquisition of a dragon, right when they needed one.
Also we've had predictions about Cersei's future from a witch that came true and the prophecy about a prince that will rule all as been mentioned a few times hasn't it so I'm sure predicting the future is something that we've seen albeit somewhat cryptically.
Perhaps the Night King has the power too, it would certainly explain the otherwise rather fortuitous acquisition of a dragon, right when they needed one.
Guvernator said:
But there have been predictions about future events haven't there? Don't the fire god people see stuff, I'm sure Melisandre has made several predictions that have come true. I even think Clegane might have seen stuff about the future.
Also we've had predictions about Cersei's future from a witch that came true and the prophecy about a prince that will rule all as been mentioned a few times hasn't it so I'm sure predicting the future is something that we've seen albeit somewhat cryptically.
Perhaps the Night King has the power too, it would certainly explain the otherwise rather fortuitous acquisition of a dragon, right when they needed one.
IN the show (in the books no prophecy has come true) the best one I can think of is Maddy the Frog, but she got bits of that wrong, like how many kids Cersei would have. Mel saw lots of things, not sure if any came true. Lots of people in book and show see visions, but actual real prophecy which fits is pretty thin, it's all been Nostrodamus stuff with people looking back and trying to make it fit.Also we've had predictions about Cersei's future from a witch that came true and the prophecy about a prince that will rule all as been mentioned a few times hasn't it so I'm sure predicting the future is something that we've seen albeit somewhat cryptically.
Perhaps the Night King has the power too, it would certainly explain the otherwise rather fortuitous acquisition of a dragon, right when they needed one.
We've also had the son of Drogo being the stallion that mounts the world, this culture loves prophecy and there are loads that don't come true.
otolith said:
kentlad said:
Hold on a minute. If the white walkers love the cold. Why go south? Surely they could just stay north and enjoy the winter?
Winter is coming to the South.JamieBeeston said:
He doesn't need to see the future if he's lived it and warged back to the past from the future!
Plus Dany and Bran have both had future visions in the current timeline.
I don't adhere to that time travel stuff, doesn't make sense. Plus it's bene shown how hard it is for Bran to warg even a simpleton like Hodor.Plus Dany and Bran have both had future visions in the current timeline.
I think loads of people have visions, but have any turned out correct? Visions are rife, like in our world.
Angrybiker said:
Everyone has a right to go on hollybobs. The WW are pissed only because Ryanair won't fly past the Wall. They just want some sun sand sea and sex in Dorne, poor things.
Pissed off that they have bene cancelling their flights for 8,000 years.Halb said:
JamieBeeston said:
He doesn't need to see the future if he's lived it and warged back to the past from the future!
Plus Dany and Bran have both had future visions in the current timeline.
I don't adhere to that time travel stuff, doesn't make sense. Plus it's bene shown how hard it is for Bran to warg even a simpleton like Hodor.Plus Dany and Bran have both had future visions in the current timeline.
I think loads of people have visions, but have any turned out correct? Visions are rife, like in our world.
We already know that Bran can time travel and interact with the past.
We know that Bran can warg in to people (remember, it was a young, inexperienced bran that warged in to Hodor, imagine what a 20, 30 or 50 yr old Bran could do!)
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long Warning in to someone then he will forget who he is and what makes him good / him!
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long in the past he can become stuck
He doesn't need to see the future, he can live it, live all the way through until the end, then warg back in to the NK, thus if this occurred, the NK would have knowledge of the entire future as he'd already have lived it!
Anyway - Cyclical argument
JamieBeeston said:
What time travel stuff are we talking about here?
We already know that Bran can time travel and interact with the past.
We know that Bran can warg in to people (remember, it was a young, inexperienced bran that warged in to Hodor, imagine what a 20, 30 or 50 yr old Bran could do!)
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long Warning in to someone then he will forget who he is and what makes him good / him!
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long in the past he can become stuck
He doesn't need to see the future, he can live it, live all the way through until the end, then warg back in to the NK, thus if this occurred, the NK would have knowledge of the entire future as he'd already have lived it!
Anyway - Cyclical argument
Bran can access what the weirwood trees have seen, or maybe what ravens have seen as well too. Not sure about actual time travel, even on a conscious level.We already know that Bran can time travel and interact with the past.
We know that Bran can warg in to people (remember, it was a young, inexperienced bran that warged in to Hodor, imagine what a 20, 30 or 50 yr old Bran could do!)
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long Warning in to someone then he will forget who he is and what makes him good / him!
We already know Bran has been warned that if he spends too long in the past he can become stuck
He doesn't need to see the future, he can live it, live all the way through until the end, then warg back in to the NK, thus if this occurred, the NK would have knowledge of the entire future as he'd already have lived it!
Anyway - Cyclical argument
Bran is still learning how to channel his gift, so I agree that as he ages and practises he should get more capable.
Forgetting oneself is a classic issue with warging, but then if he does forget himself, then he isn't Bran anymore and won't have any knowledge of previous events.
THat last line doesn't make sense to me, he has to have a living body to warg, if Bran's body dies, then Bran dies. Consciousness transfer from body to body may be possible (we've not seen it done yet) but as you say, one forgets, so any knowledge would be forgotten and useless.
Basically all this time travel theory stuff relies on adding bits and pieces we've not seen.
I hadn't recalled a warning over being stuck in the past.
Edited by Halb on Friday 29th September 05:38
Halb said:
IN the show (in the books no prophecy has come true) the best one I can think of is Maddy the Frog, but she got bits of that wrong, like how many kids Cersei would have. Mel saw lots of things, not sure if any came true. Lots of people in book and show see visions, but actual real prophecy which fits is pretty thin, it's all been Nostrodamus stuff with people looking back and trying to make it fit.
There is a frequent point made in the books about prophecy/visions being open to wrong interpretation and misunderstanding etc.For example - Mel sees in her fires a young girl with grey eyes on a dying horse running to the wall to escape a forced wedding, which is true.
Based on the other information she has, she assumes it is Arya escaping the wedding to Ramsay, and she tells Jon that his sister is coming and needs his help.
But its actually Alys Karstark running from a different forced wedding, Ramsay's wedding isn't to the real Arya at all (who is in Braavos) but an imposter to try and give him a claim to Winterfell as they think the real Arya is dead.
Of course the show just skipped all the subterfuge of that example, deleted a few characters and married Ramsay to Sansa instead.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 29th September 00:36
Halb said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Just one thing, when Cersei was talking about hiring the Golden Company. Wasn't that the sell sword army that Stannis bought with Iron Bank money that fled as soon as it got tough?
Nah, they were just some local yo-yos.2+2=4'ish
FourWheelDrift said:
Do you remember this? When Davos talks about the 10,000 men of the Golden Company in the east and Stannis saying they don't have the gold to buy them. After which they go to the east, to the Iron Bank in Bravos and come back with the very smart looking army that takes out Mance then leave when the going gets rough, just like sellswords do. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4EhIodrXE
2+2=4'ish
I didn't recall the name drop, nice catch.2+2=4'ish
Few things;
The show is inconsistent with portraying armies onscreen, but I doubt they'd have the GC onscreen and not have any of their banners represented. Plus it's the biggest and most famous and has connections to the Targs. No reference?
Davos himself says the GC do not break contracts, yet I recall the sellswords breaking their contract back in series 5. Were they called the Second Sons? Cannot recall
I think the bank made a small loan to Stannis? It is referenced? So enough to buy some also-rans, but not the big one.
The GC is name dropped by Cersei (and boosted to 20k) so it wasn't them anyways
The leader of the GC is currently being cast.
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