Game of Thrones - vol II - NO SPOILERS
Discussion
Tankrizzo said:
This - it's like the writers had a plot point which said "Dany dies by Jon's hand" and thought right, 10 minutes on that will do. Quick speech by Tyrion, pained looks by Jon, stabby stabby and on with the story quickly so we can wrap this up.
Last 4 episodes have just felt like there's a studio bigwig standing outside where the storywriters are sat, looking in through the window and tapping their watch.
That would be Disney ushering them along to their next lucrative gig. The thing is, they won that gig on the back of how good GoT was, considering it went downhill over the last couple of seasons, perhaps not the wisest choice in retrospect.Last 4 episodes have just felt like there's a studio bigwig standing outside where the storywriters are sat, looking in through the window and tapping their watch.
There was some irony in how rushed this final season (and episode) was when it took nearly 10 minutes of screen time for Tyrion to walk through the wreckage of KL and get to the Red Keep - but at least glad to see a few tonnes of rubble finally did what a 6 inch blade couldn't to Jaime!
I enjoyed it as a spectacle but as with every episode so much jarred:
- Oh hey Bronn where did you pop from?
- Bye Samwell, my best bud through the series....oh, wait.
- It's snowing and grim in KL - oh wait now it's sunny and everything is re-built.
- Greyworm, the ultimate killer who has followed his Queen for 7 series across continents - we are to believe he wouldn't just execute JS on sight? He gains a conscious because he is not a Lannister-man?
- Bran. In general.
I personally just think they should have rolled credits at the beautiful shot of JS looking out the throne-room as Drogon flies off with Dany in his claw. By that point I didn't care too much about what happened to the others.
I enjoyed it as a spectacle but as with every episode so much jarred:
- Oh hey Bronn where did you pop from?
- Bye Samwell, my best bud through the series....oh, wait.
- It's snowing and grim in KL - oh wait now it's sunny and everything is re-built.
- Greyworm, the ultimate killer who has followed his Queen for 7 series across continents - we are to believe he wouldn't just execute JS on sight? He gains a conscious because he is not a Lannister-man?
- Bran. In general.
I personally just think they should have rolled credits at the beautiful shot of JS looking out the throne-room as Drogon flies off with Dany in his claw. By that point I didn't care too much about what happened to the others.
Tankrizzo said:
Nom de ploom said:
i agree completely although that last line was classic tyrion. it descended into panto and the book reference OMG so weak.
the worst bit by far for me though was the melting of the throne - I did say a few weeks back i bet no-one ends up on the iron throne but the way it happened...jeez.
it strongly suggested cognisence or intelligence in a dragon and if Drogon was that bright and realised JS killed its mother wouldn't it have killed JS too? the whole sequence from the TL / JS prison cell through to drogon flying off into the sky was really poor for me. stilted dialogue, rushed, flat.
Greyworm's elevated status was misplaced too for me.
and the cop out meritocracy ending. there have been some really good bit in this series, eps 1, 2 & 3. the rest has all been a bit meh for me.
This - it's like the writers had a plot point which said "Dany dies by Jon's hand" and thought right, 10 minutes on that will do. Quick speech by Tyrion, pained looks by Jon, stabby stabby and on with the story quickly so we can wrap this up.the worst bit by far for me though was the melting of the throne - I did say a few weeks back i bet no-one ends up on the iron throne but the way it happened...jeez.
it strongly suggested cognisence or intelligence in a dragon and if Drogon was that bright and realised JS killed its mother wouldn't it have killed JS too? the whole sequence from the TL / JS prison cell through to drogon flying off into the sky was really poor for me. stilted dialogue, rushed, flat.
Greyworm's elevated status was misplaced too for me.
and the cop out meritocracy ending. there have been some really good bit in this series, eps 1, 2 & 3. the rest has all been a bit meh for me.
Last 4 episodes have just felt like there's a studio bigwig standing outside where the storywriters are sat, looking in through the window and tapping their watch.
ts about can decide what to do with him... Far better for him to have been executed there and then. Drogon flies off, Unsullied burst in, spears get s
t done. Might it have been better if Drogon tried to burn Jon for killing Danny, the Iron Throne melts behind him but Jon comes out unscathed? Drogon realises he is a Targ and bows to him. The Unsullied try to kill him but Drogon backs him up so they can't. The Unsullied are forced to compromise or face annihilation. Then we have the similar scenes at the end except Jon releases Drogon to fly off at the end before going North as dragons don't like the cold.
Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
Nom de ploom said:
Drogon told them obvs. 
but yes....we just skipped that part where the investigation or confession and outcome of the THE QUEEN being murdered came about....
Given the previous episodes there's no way Grey Worm wouldn't immediately have killed Jon Snow there and thenbut yes....we just skipped that part where the investigation or confession and outcome of the THE QUEEN being murdered came about....
So maybe Jon was killed then revived (again)?
I think Dani's desth was ok, no real build up then in 10seconds its curtains. That strikes me as the way things would likely go. Few actual deaths are full of drama and if you dick about the victim knows whats happennng and escapes. Thats why James Bond is still alive, his would be killers always faff about.
Legend83 said:
There was some irony in how rushed this final season (and episode) was when it took nearly 10 minutes of screen time for Tyrion to walk through the wreckage of KL and get to the Red Keep - but at least glad to see a few tonnes of rubble finally did what a 6 inch blade couldn't to Jaime!
I enjoyed it as a spectacle but as with every episode so much jarred:
- Oh hey Bronn where did you pop from?
- Bye Samwell, my best bud through the series....oh, wait.
- It's snowing and grim in KL - oh wait now it's sunny and everything is re-built.
- Greyworm, the ultimate killer who has followed his Queen for 7 series across continents - we are to believe he wouldn't just execute JS on sight? He gains a conscious because he is not a Lannister-man?
- Bran. In general.
I personally just think they should have rolled credits at the beautiful shot of JS looking out the throne-room as Drogon flies off with Dany in his claw. By that point I didn't care too much about what happened to the others.
The magic did seem to go out of the show at that moment, the last of the dragon lords. All we were left with was prats like Tully and Bronn as master of the coin. I enjoyed it as a spectacle but as with every episode so much jarred:
- Oh hey Bronn where did you pop from?
- Bye Samwell, my best bud through the series....oh, wait.
- It's snowing and grim in KL - oh wait now it's sunny and everything is re-built.
- Greyworm, the ultimate killer who has followed his Queen for 7 series across continents - we are to believe he wouldn't just execute JS on sight? He gains a conscious because he is not a Lannister-man?
- Bran. In general.
I personally just think they should have rolled credits at the beautiful shot of JS looking out the throne-room as Drogon flies off with Dany in his claw. By that point I didn't care too much about what happened to the others.
It was like Alexander the great being killed after the battle of the Granicus River
HealeyV8 said:
Dany is bad for torching KL?
I had this argument with my misses. As the show is based on late Medieval European times this is normal practice. You want to have a swift time conquering a domian you make an example of the first town by razing it to the ground and killing all the people, women and children included. Other states / cities then surrender without bloodshed. Lets face it Dany had the 7 kingdoms to conquer, it wasn't over with just KL. So for the perceived time period she was following normal mecriful practice and Jon killed her for doing nothing, for the period, wrong.
But it was intended to be more of a coup d'état than a sack and burn conquering. I had this argument with my misses. As the show is based on late Medieval European times this is normal practice. You want to have a swift time conquering a domian you make an example of the first town by razing it to the ground and killing all the people, women and children included. Other states / cities then surrender without bloodshed. Lets face it Dany had the 7 kingdoms to conquer, it wasn't over with just KL. So for the perceived time period she was following normal mecriful practice and Jon killed her for doing nothing, for the period, wrong.
Nom de ploom said:
the worst bit by far for me though was the melting of the throne - I did say a few weeks back i bet no-one ends up on the iron throne but the way it happened...jeez.
it strongly suggested cognisence or intelligence in a dragon and if Drogon was that bright and realised JS killed its mother wouldn't it have killed JS too? the whole sequence from the TL / JS prison cell through to drogon flying off into the sky was really poor for me. stilted dialogue, rushed, flat.
I seem to remember Tyrion talking about the intelligence of dragons earlier. They're not dumb beasts.it strongly suggested cognisence or intelligence in a dragon and if Drogon was that bright and realised JS killed its mother wouldn't it have killed JS too? the whole sequence from the TL / JS prison cell through to drogon flying off into the sky was really poor for me. stilted dialogue, rushed, flat.
As I read it, the dragon knew exactly what happened, wanted to incinerate Snow but didn't, because he's a Targaryen, so vented its fury on the throne.
HealeyV8 said:
Dany is bad for torching KL?
I had this argument with my misses. As the show is based on late Medieval European times this is normal practice. You want to have a swift time conquering a domian you make an example of the first town by razing it to the ground and killing all the people, women and children included. Other states / cities then surrender without bloodshed. Lets face it Dany had the 7 kingdoms to conquer, it wasn't over with just KL. So for the perceived time period she was following normal mecriful practice and Jon killed her for doing nothing, for the period, wrong.
Dorne and Highgarden and the North were already on Dany's side. Dany had already taken Casterly Rock. I had this argument with my misses. As the show is based on late Medieval European times this is normal practice. You want to have a swift time conquering a domian you make an example of the first town by razing it to the ground and killing all the people, women and children included. Other states / cities then surrender without bloodshed. Lets face it Dany had the 7 kingdoms to conquer, it wasn't over with just KL. So for the perceived time period she was following normal mecriful practice and Jon killed her for doing nothing, for the period, wrong.
The Riverlands were under the control of the Lannisters with Edmund Tully as their pawn; and wouldn't have fought Dany after she won Kings Landing.
Storm's End had no lord with the Baratheons wiped out; and evidently wasn't important enough to be much of a focus for anyone to put priority on controlling.
Kings Landing was all there was left to win for her.
Guvernator said:
Good post, probably ended about as well as could be expected given the various options available to them. It just felt a bit rushed, if they'd taken their time over it with a full 10 episodes, it might have gone down better. As it is, it all feels deflating because of the urgency to get it done in 6 episodes.
Yes, that was what I was saying in my very guarded pre-watershed post yesterday morning. Given the corner the writers had painted themselves into, and given the lowered standard of Season 8, I don't really see how they could have done much better than they did.
Judged by the lowered standards, it held up.
edit:
Guvernator said:
Might it have been better if Drogon tried to burn Jon for killing Danny, the Iron Throne melts behind him but Jon comes out unscathed? Drogon realises he is a Targ and bows to him. The Unsullied try to kill him but Drogon backs him up so they can't. The Unsullied are forced to compromise or face annihilation. Then we have the similar scenes at the end except Jon releases Drogon to fly off at the end before going North as dragons don't like the cold.
Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
Works for me. Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
Plus we get to see Jon in the nuddie.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 21st May 11:35
Guvernator said:
Might it have been better if Drogon tried to burn Jon for killing Danny, the Iron Throne melts behind him but Jon comes out unscathed? Drogon realises he is a Targ and bows to him. The Unsullied try to kill him but Drogon backs him up so they can't. The Unsullied are forced to compromise or face annihilation. Then we have the similar scenes at the end except Jon releases Drogon to fly off at the end before going North as dragons don't like the cold.
Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
Anything would have been better than '... and they all lived happily ever after'.Jon refuses the throne and decides to go North of his own free will as he has wanted to for a while.
Similar ending but just makes more sense maybe?
I think after the immense build up over the last 5-6 seasons, it's just a bit deflating. I don't really have too much of a problem with where most of the characters ended up except perhaps Jamie and Cersie but they way they got to that point wasn't as satisfying as it could and should have been.
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