Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[AndStilliRise]

Guvernator said:

Halb said:

Yeah, ALderaan was gonna get it as a nice demonstration to the senate and bolder systems. From memory, Leia resists torture/mind hack, so Tarkin takes her to ALderaan to use it as a threat for her to volunteer the info, she does and then he turns around and says one of the best lines, 'you may fire when ready' to Johhny Briggs's dad.
Leia's input had no effect. I reckon even if Leia had said a system that was busy, he'd still have done Alderaan, that was Tarkin all over, he was a one.

Compare the cool menace of Tarkin, who basically kept Darth Vader, one of the most bad-ass villians in history on a leash through sheer force of will to General Hux and the awful slapstick dynamic he has with Kylo Ren and well practically everybody else.

Disney I'm really starting to hate you for what you've done to this franchise!

I agree.

[zygalski]

The way I see see it is that Lucas injured the franchise with the prequels & Disney have now struck the mortal blow.

[tgclowes]

I dislike the direction so much that I waited around 6-7 months to watch Rogue One, but for me I thought it was fantastic and the best of the 3 recent films. The perfect blend of new and old characters with some amazing scenes I wont mention incase of spoilers (I know it's been out over a year) with a great nod to the old films whilst creating it's own story arc. How can it be so hard to replicate this with what I should think is a hugely expensive writing staff and one of the most vocal communities out there?

I know you'll never please everyone, but the actual public sentiment is shockingly bad.

[prand]

tgclowes said:

I dislike the direction so much that I waited around 6-7 months to watch Rogue One, but for me I thought it was fantastic and the best of the 3 recent films. The perfect blend of new and old characters with some amazing scenes I wont mention incase of spoilers (I know it's been out over a year) with a great nod to the old films whilst creating it's own story arc. How can it be so hard to replicate this with what I should think is a hugely expensive writing staff and one of the most vocal communities out there?

I know you'll never please everyone, but the actual public sentiment is shockingly bad.

I really enjoyed it too, self contained and l faithful to the Star Wars world in the most part, despite some almost ropey CGI representation of Tarkin and Leiea.

I thought it was a great pity that the characters introduced cannot be further developed. I really liked the sarcastic droid K-2SO and enjoyed the space and land battles.

The latest one was an overlong illogical mess IMO.

[techguyone]

China has now completely dropped it from every cinema in the country guess they liked it too LOL

Total take for China (the Worlds second largest moviegoing market) is .... $31.1 million.

Disney must be having crisis talks now.

Can't show a link as it's from News in a dodgy movie Android app so can't paste it, but I'm not making it up.

[Guvernator]

The China news is everywhere, just do a Google for The Last Jedi China. However the media seem to be doing a sterling job of making excuses for it already, basically blaming everything except the fact that it's a st film.

I've often heard rumours of this kind of media whitewash but up till now I've dismissed it as tin foil hattery, however now I've actually seen it in action, I find it very worrying. If a large corporation can basically make the media bend to it's will over something as inconsequential as a film, how else are the media being manipulated?

[Janluke]

Ok which one of you guys was it?

Fan removes all the women from TLJ :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/17/star-...

[chris watton]

Guvernator said:

The China news is everywhere, just do a Google for The Last Jedi China. However the media seem to be doing a sterling job of making excuses for it already, basically blaming everything except the fact that it's a st film.

I've often heard rumours of this kind of media whitewash but up till now I've dismissed it as tin foil hattery, however now I've actually seen it in action, I find it very worrying. If a large corporation can basically make the media bend to it's will over something as inconsequential as a film, how else are the media being manipulated?

I don't trust any of the MSM and associated outlets, mags, etc. anymore.

The last film mag I bought was horror genre specific, and in it was a large article about the new Ghostbusters, with a vitriolic headline, 'Box Office Busted', stating that, despite the woman hating misogynists talking down the film, it has been a roaring success and many sequels are in the pipeline, and waxing lyrical about how 'ground-breaking' the movie is and most really like it - or words to that effect. This was two years ago, and I haven't bought another issue since. I haven't ever seen the film so can't comment on its merits, but I smelt a rat.

Am smelling the same with the MSM reviews of this latest SW film - clearly, it is the paying public that have it wrong and more re-education is needed!

Like the MSM, Hollywood and the MS entertainment industry is doing its best to accelerate its own demise. No one likes hypocrites preaching stuff they themselves do not adhere to. For the most part, a trip to see a new Hollywood blockbuster is a very hollow/empty experience, soon forgotten.

[ben5575]

Most of the current articles are quoting the same chinese 'expert' and basically repeating the same story. Much like they did with that fb page that was apparently fiddling the RT scores. There is a pattern...

Interesting that the current spin is that there is a lack of cultural heritage attached to SW in China. Presumably that's because nobody has the internet or a Blu Ray player over there. Ironic given that the spin over here was that is was a whole new direction that jettisoned the past and it was just us geeky dinosaurs who were hating on it.

You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. If it was a new direction and a film that stood on its own two feet, then it would have been a success. Oh dear.

I can't believe I'm at the stage where I'm happy SW failed in China. Such a shame, but the hate is at the film makers and Disney, not SW. I really hope they can rescue the franchise.

[lenny007]

ReallyReallyGood said:

lenny007 said:

Well, without geeking out too much (which is impossible not to do when discussing Star Wars, Tarkin sent scouts to Dantooine off the back of Leia's "confession" and was informed of this prior to issuing the order to destroy Alderaan. So what i said was correct, from a certain point of view...

I thought she said it was Dantooine after Tarkin threatens to blow up Alderaan, then he basically says "thanks", then blows up Alderaan anyway, then later on in the film he finds out she lied and orders her execution. So whatever she says about the rebel base, Alderaan was already doomed.

Sadly, you are correct and nobody has been this wrong since George Lucas thought "bantha poodoo" was a funny line.

Apologies all.

I'm going to have to rewatch the Original Trilogy to recharge my geek batteries.

[Halb]

Disney should be wiser here, accept the pill and move on, the trouble is, the hubris, it's why they have smashed down on any critic who crosses them.
http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/critics-disney-ba...
Disney seems to be run by tts, rather than sensible people.

ben5575 said:

I can't believe I'm at the stage where I'm happy SW failed in China. Such a shame, but the hate is at the film makers and Disney, not SW. I really

hope they can rescue the franchise.

good gooooood, I can feel the hate swelling in you now

[r11co]

Halb said:

Another brilliant vid from Georg Rockall-Schmidt with astute observations on fandom and poor writing.

The Importance Of Fandom - The Last Jedi

https://youtu.be/uWZYY_RXpUY

There is very little to argue with in that video and the irony of buying a franchise for such a high price because it carried with it a ton of goodwil that gave it its value and then thinking that it was a sensible move to fk with that goodwill and preach to the established audience that their expectations should change while still heavily in the red on the investment beggars belief.

Rian Johnson didn't have to "choose which fan theory to follow". Nor did he have to choose the destructive path that ensured the story followed none of them (the lazy option IMO but evidently the one he took).

There were so many possibilities - put some skill into the writing and come up with something utterly surprising, clever and left-field, Alternatively, fork the storylines to appeal to the new target audiences Disney were claiming TLJ was shooting for.

It looks like Disney are now relying on the 'fill in' movies to keep the established fans happy, but that is treating them as second-class fans.

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 17th January 18:45

[ben5575]

Halb said:

good gooooood, I can feel the hate swelling in you now

[AshVX220]

I still don't understand how Disney were able to do something so great with Rogue One, but yet with TLJ completely screw it all up story wise and top that insult off with an overly politicised POS (can't actually believe I'm calling a Star Wars or Disney product that!).

They also did pretty good (though safe) work with TFA, yet for TLKJ through away everything that had been set up.

There had to be some back story as to why the Rebellion were now a Resistance to now re-grouped and threatening First Order, and it has all been completely blown over.

[techguyone]

I thought it was because in TFA the starkiller weapon zapped most/all of the rebel fleet when they zapped that planet.

[Guvernator]

techguyone said:

I thought it was because in TFA the starkiller weapon zapped most/all of the rebel fleet when they zapped that planet.

So in an entire galaxy, they happened to wipe out pretty much the entire Republic and associated fleet with one blow leaving a few hundred rebels and 3 ships?

Where did the financing for the First Order come from, in fact where did the First Order come from? I understand this is a sci-fi film but it's only been what 30 years since the Rebels resounding victory in RoTJ. How have they gone from that to basically being back to the desperate Rebels running for their lives thing in TLJ? Who was Snoke and how was he able to rebuild the First Order so quickly from the ashes of the defeated Empire?

So much unexplained, the books actually have a good stab at explaining some of this stuff, Disney's only answer is basically because they wanted to do a soft reboot and bring things back how they were at the start of ANH without any rational explanation.

[Halb]

THe thing that really annoyed me was that when they used the base, and destroyed a planet, people were watching it from other planets...what?! Were all of these planets 50 feet from each other?

[g3org3y]

Halb said:

ben5575 said:

I can't believe I'm at the stage where I'm happy SW failed in China. Such a shame, but the hate is at the film makers and Disney, not SW. I really

hope they can rescue the franchise.

good gooooood, I can feel the hate swelling in you now

r11co said:

There is very little to argue with in that video and the irony of buying a franchise for such a high price because it carried with it a ton of goodwil that gave it its value and then thinking that it was a sensible move to fk with that goodwill and preach to the established audience that their expectations should change while still heavily in the red on the investment beggars belief.

Indeed. Seemingly managed by fkwits or those desperate to push an agenda.

[glazbagun]

Guvernator said:

Compare the cool menace of Tarkin, who basically kept Darth Vader, one of the most bad-ass villians in history on a leash through sheer force of will to General Hux and the awful slapstick dynamic he has with Kylo Ren and well practically everybody else.

Disney I'm really starting to hate you for what you've done to this franchise!

I thought Hux was excellent in TFA- an actual glove-wearing signed up fascist and a great rival to Kylo who started out pretty menacing himself before his insecurities became apparent. As the film carried on, Hux was building up some top brownie points with the boss.

I'm not a huge JJ fan, but he'd set up a good movie with some good rivalries. TLJ looks like it was set up sust so the sequel would be even worse.

Hux in TFA:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=53JtyC9izV4

[HorneyMX5]

Rubbishing Hux was one of the worst parts of TLJ for me. The character had such promise as a real evil bd in TFA. The speech to the troops on star killer where he’s verging on madness is brilliant. TLJ is like he’s had a labotomy in between films, did I miss that in the opening crawl?