Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
Agree with the general theme here, rather disappointed. It felt like a bunch of disconnected set piece scenes, some very good, but not a story.
The opening attack, Poe doing his ace pilot thing was plausible in-character, but all the bombers getting quickly slaughtered except one that miraculously survived long enough to score the critical hit, felt really forced, no pun intended, but that could/would/should have worked to have the resistance survivors somewhat force sensitive, lucky, a survival trait.
Finns sudden change of heart and the codebreaker hacker chasing, their slipping away unseen. It would have worked much better as an opening scene, with the chase having gone on for some time. The first order grinding down the resistance, taking out stragglers.
The Leia and the entire bridge crew in such a vulnerable position during a big battle.
Rey becoming a Jedi Master in three days, how long did it take Anakin and Luke.
Kylo & Snokes, come on.
Luke's missing footprints, obvious were that was going.
The stupid little penguins.
The opening attack, Poe doing his ace pilot thing was plausible in-character, but all the bombers getting quickly slaughtered except one that miraculously survived long enough to score the critical hit, felt really forced, no pun intended, but that could/would/should have worked to have the resistance survivors somewhat force sensitive, lucky, a survival trait.
Finns sudden change of heart and the codebreaker hacker chasing, their slipping away unseen. It would have worked much better as an opening scene, with the chase having gone on for some time. The first order grinding down the resistance, taking out stragglers.
The Leia and the entire bridge crew in such a vulnerable position during a big battle.
Rey becoming a Jedi Master in three days, how long did it take Anakin and Luke.
Kylo & Snokes, come on.
Luke's missing footprints, obvious were that was going.
The stupid little penguins.
Bullett said:
Some good points in the comments about Phasma. The one female villain in SW ruined.
Yep - out of all the new characters, she had the most potential IMO. With most of the other characters - we pretty much knew what we were going to get from the outset.Rey - Luke Skywalker....but betterer cos she's female innit
Kylo - moody Anakin after his fall to the dark side......but brunette and with a s
t lightsabreSnoke - looks the emperor survived ROTJ by breaking his fall using his face
BB8 - R2D2 with balls.
Phasma could have given us a unique perspective on the SW universe and the first order - we have never seen a female perspective from the evil/dark side.
She was massively underutilised in TFA and killed off far too quickly in TLJ. Shame.
chris watton said:
'Pay to watch this film and like it, or you're a misogynistic racist bigot' - yep, that'll convince the crowds to hand over their hard earned, great business practice, what could possibly go wrong...
That's a very succinct but accurate take on the misjudged studio/writer/producer response to the fan criticism - latching on to the minority-expressed misogyny as if that is the only criticism being expressed, notwithstanding that in doing so the studio appears to be pitching the film at a demographic that doesn't actually exist but they believe should, and think they can leverage it into being using a franchise that carries a massive fanbase that should be 'converted' as well as being added to with a new indoctrinated audience.JJ Abrams comments are ironic in the extreme - Hollywood exists in its own reactive bubble and it is him that is feeling "threatened" as a result of #TimesUp. I'm not alleging he's another Weinstein, just that any male in the entertainment industry is on the back foot at the moment so has to be seen to be singing from the hymn sheet.
Edited by r11co on Friday 20th April 09:31
Finally watched it. This was the first Star Wars film I haven't seen at the cinema, since way back with ANH when I was seven. Sadly, I fear seeing it on a big screen might be the only thing that'd have saved it. Everything everyone who's criticised it on here is true. Pretty much all of it I arrived at through independent thought, then sat here and spent ages reading this thread only to think "not just me, then"
The visuals and Star Wars feel of the tech were amazing and spot on... I love the assault walkers and the huge weapons and all the battle stuff that's always made the franchise great. Pretty much everything else was st, and I won't re-hash the flaws already so often pointed out here. Suffice to say my seven-year old daughter wanted to know how bombers worked in space without gravity 
The eleven-year old hated the fight between Kylo Ren, Rey and the Imperial Guard dudes, and so did I, despite many here saying they thought it was a high point. It was neither balletic enough to be artistic nor fast and convincing enough to be an actual fight. If an 11-y-o who basically lives for karate and lightsabers is unsatisfied then something's gone wrong. There were too many poorly-framed shots where all you can see is attackers having a little stand by while their buddy is cut down... and as for the one who seemed to placidly spend a couple of minutes letting Ren cuddle him so he could chop down the others... nope. Just nope. Jackie Chan did better as a Lego minifigure sensei than everyone put together in that scene
...and for me, that lack of immediacy is what really bksed the entire film. It pervades every single aspect. Even though we're consistently told this is a desperate run for life, the last broken remnants of the Resistance fleeing for its every existence, there's always time to stop and have a little chat about anything you fancy. Just when things get a bit exciting the flow is broken up by another little chin-wag between characters you've never heard of before and couldn't give two hoots about. It's like getting to the vinegar strokes and the other half remembers she has to pop downstairs to feed the cats.
No. Just no. Don't do this again, Disney.
The visuals and Star Wars feel of the tech were amazing and spot on... I love the assault walkers and the huge weapons and all the battle stuff that's always made the franchise great. Pretty much everything else was s
t, and I won't re-hash the flaws already so often pointed out here. Suffice to say my seven-year old daughter wanted to know how bombers worked in space without gravity The eleven-year old hated the fight between Kylo Ren, Rey and the Imperial Guard dudes, and so did I, despite many here saying they thought it was a high point. It was neither balletic enough to be artistic nor fast and convincing enough to be an actual fight. If an 11-y-o who basically lives for karate and lightsabers is unsatisfied then something's gone wrong. There were too many poorly-framed shots where all you can see is attackers having a little stand by while their buddy is cut down... and as for the one who seemed to placidly spend a couple of minutes letting Ren cuddle him so he could chop down the others... nope. Just nope. Jackie Chan did better as a Lego minifigure sensei than everyone put together in that scene...and for me, that lack of immediacy is what really b
ksed the entire film. It pervades every single aspect. Even though we're consistently told this is a desperate run for life, the last broken remnants of the Resistance fleeing for its every existence, there's always time to stop and have a little chat about anything you fancy. Just when things get a bit exciting the flow is broken up by another little chin-wag between characters you've never heard of before and couldn't give two hoots about. It's like getting to the vinegar strokes and the other half remembers she has to pop downstairs to feed the cats.No. Just no. Don't do this again, Disney.
r11co said:
....the studio appears to be pitching the film at a demographic that doesn't actually exist but they believe should,
That's exactly the point the guy made in the video posted a few pages back about the economics of Disney's investment in SW.They should be making movies for the customers they already have - not the customers they would like to have.
If they can broaden the fan base as part of the process - then fine, but they should be wary of trying to do so by alienating their core customers. By ignoring legitimate criticism of the movies and dismissing any negative comments as misogyny - they risk alienating their very large core set of customers.
Sony tried this with Ghostbusters 3 and it didn't work. They effectively killed the franchise by pissing all over the existing fan base.....Disney are in the process of doing the same.
And, just to add I'm now dreading the Solo film. I thought Rogue One was possibly the best of the entire franchise, and was looking forward to the other "tween-films". Then I heard it was going to be Young Han (a movie concept that is almost always crap anyway) and started to get the fear. I always thought Han Solo was one of the weakest and most inconsistent of the lead characters with very questionable and random motivations for what he does. I felt it was a hopelessly flawed character basically held together by Harrison Ford's undeniable charisma. Now it's going to be cod-moralised into a Disney juvenile virtue map and directed by a fool with no concept of heritage or decent storytelling, I suspect I simply just won't bother
I'd have forgiven TLJ trampling over everything Star Wars fans held dear or anticipated going forward if it had been a good film with a decent story. But it was neither. As a standalone movie it was 6/10 just for the visual effects, but as a Star Wars film it was a weak 3/10. Very depressing. If they're going to hit the same destruction ratio on weaker story lines then Solo ought to be utter, unadulterated st
I'd have forgiven TLJ trampling over everything Star Wars fans held dear or anticipated going forward if it had been a good film with a decent story. But it was neither. As a standalone movie it was 6/10 just for the visual effects, but as a Star Wars film it was a weak 3/10. Very depressing. If they're going to hit the same destruction ratio on weaker story lines then Solo ought to be utter, unadulterated s
t
r11co said:
JJ Abrams comments are ironic in the extreme - Hollywood exists in its own reactive bubble and it is him that is feeling "threatened" as a result of #TimesUp. I'm not alleging he's another Weinstein, just that any male in the entertainment industry is on the back foot at the moment so has to be seen to be singing from the hymn sheet.
I agree.Edited by r11co on Friday 20th April 09:31
It seems the biggest male supporters of 'Feminism' are the very worst offenders of treating woman like crap (and worse). Likewise, Hollywood, collectively now try to brow beat the audience with the same crap. Trouble is, most of us are not as sick as those who are preaching (projection)?, and it is our morals and standards that are fine, and most definitely not theirs.
For me at least, the knock-on effect of what's been going on in Hollywood, coupled with their fake moralising (like the rapey male 'Feminists'), has put me off going to see these 'stars'. I cannot help but think, when watching, I wonder just how sordid this actor/director/producer is. It is now impossible to look up to any of them.
Nik da Greek said:
...and for me, that lack of immediacy is what really bksed the entire film. It pervades every single aspect. Even though we're consistently told this is a desperate run for life, the last broken remnants of the Resistance fleeing for its every existence, there's always time to stop and have a little chat about anything you fancy. Just when things get a bit exciting the flow is broken up by another little chin-wag between characters you've never heard of before and couldn't give two hoots about.
You know the best I have ever seen this concept done was the first Episode of the Battlestar Galactica remake - not the miniseries, but the first series proper.ksed the entire film. It pervades every single aspect. Even though we're consistently told this is a desperate run for life, the last broken remnants of the Resistance fleeing for its every existence, there's always time to stop and have a little chat about anything you fancy. Just when things get a bit exciting the flow is broken up by another little chin-wag between characters you've never heard of before and couldn't give two hoots about.The Cylons were tracking the fleet and would catch up every 33 minutes. You really got the sense that the entire fleet and especially the crew of the Galactica were genuinely fatigued by having almost a week of constant cat and mouse jumps - just to try and stay one step ahead. You could tell the crew were just about ready to crack and that the Cylons (being machines) were able to just grind them down by their sheet relentlessness. I was completely hooked after watching this episode and it set the tone for the entire series.
As you say - TLJ just didn't have anything like this sense of urgency, desperation or hopelessness.
MXRod said:
How many adults let that one pass them by , err 
I personally just assumed they were being pushed out of the ship (perhaps using magnets - a bit like how a rail gun works) - or the bombs themselves had a rudimentary propulsion system which would direct their course out of the bomber.It's good that a 7 year old has the nous to question stuff like this though.
Moonhawk said:
You know the best I have ever seen this concept done was the first Episode of the Battlestar Galactica remake - not the miniseries, but the first series proper.
The Cylons were tracking the fleet and would catch up every 33 minutes. You really got the sense that the entire fleet and especially the crew of the Galactica were genuinely fatigued by having almost a week of constant cat and mouse jumps - just to try and stay one step ahead. You could tell the crew were just about ready to crack and that the Cylons (being machines) were able to just grind them down by their sheet relentlessness. I was completely hooked after watching this episode and it set the tone for the entire series.
As you say - TLJ just didn't have anything like this sense of urgency, desperation or hopelessness.
33, damn yeah, that was good, such good writing, acting, plotting...sci-fi had it's heyday then.The Cylons were tracking the fleet and would catch up every 33 minutes. You really got the sense that the entire fleet and especially the crew of the Galactica were genuinely fatigued by having almost a week of constant cat and mouse jumps - just to try and stay one step ahead. You could tell the crew were just about ready to crack and that the Cylons (being machines) were able to just grind them down by their sheet relentlessness. I was completely hooked after watching this episode and it set the tone for the entire series.
As you say - TLJ just didn't have anything like this sense of urgency, desperation or hopelessness.
Nik da Greek said:
And, just to add I'm now dreading the Solo film. I thought Rogue One was possibly the best of the entire franchise, and was looking forward to the other "tween-films". Then I heard it was going to be Young Han (a movie concept that is almost always crap anyway) and started to get the fear. I always thought Han Solo was one of the weakest and most inconsistent of the lead characters with very questionable and random motivations for what he does. I felt it was a hopelessly flawed character basically held together by Harrison Ford's undeniable charisma. Now it's going to be cod-moralised into a Disney juvenile virtue map and directed by a fool with no concept of heritage or decent storytelling, I suspect I simply just won't bother
I'd have forgiven TLJ trampling over everything Star Wars fans held dear or anticipated going forward if it had been a good film with a decent story. But it was neither. As a standalone movie it was 6/10 just for the visual effects, but as a Star Wars film it was a weak 3/10. Very depressing. If they're going to hit the same destruction ratio on weaker story lines then Solo ought to be utter, unadulterated st
I had zero confidence in that Solo film but the trailer actually looks not bad?I'd have forgiven TLJ trampling over everything Star Wars fans held dear or anticipated going forward if it had been a good film with a decent story. But it was neither. As a standalone movie it was 6/10 just for the visual effects, but as a Star Wars film it was a weak 3/10. Very depressing. If they're going to hit the same destruction ratio on weaker story lines then Solo ought to be utter, unadulterated s
t
Halb said:
Oakey said:
I had zero confidence in that Solo film but the trailer actually looks not bad?
I've fallen for that before. 
I'll be reading the reviews of folks on here whose opinion I trust.
I disliked TFA so much I got rid of my old toys (barring a full perm of "vintage" figures) and anything published or filmed after 1983.
Rogue One was had signifcant and glaring issues for me, but was much closer to the sort of film I'd hoped it would be.
The Last Jedi though, I actually quite liked & though it's not worth 5 stars, I would rate it as the least flawed Star Wars Movie since the original trilogy. Sorry about that
Rogue One was had signifcant and glaring issues for me, but was much closer to the sort of film I'd hoped it would be.
The Last Jedi though, I actually quite liked & though it's not worth 5 stars, I would rate it as the least flawed Star Wars Movie since the original trilogy. Sorry about that
MXRod said:
To quote , Nik da Greek
"Suffice to say my seven-year old daughter wanted to know how bombers worked in space without gravity"
How many adults let that one pass them by , err
she was very pleased with herself, she's been "doing space" at school "Suffice to say my seven-year old daughter wanted to know how bombers worked in space without gravity"
How many adults let that one pass them by , err
The point isn't even that physics should work in real-world ways in what is essentially a fantasy film... and Star Wars has always had questionable moments of non-science to explain (or more usually, completely ignore) how stuff works. But if it's so jarring that seven-year-olds are left without suspension of disbelief, then I figure it must be really bad
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