Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[warch]

chris watton said:

warch said:

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

If that is the case, and you are defending this POS, why the disparity in BO ratings, if it's really so similar?

WTF? It's currently number 11 in the Top 100 films of all time (Worldwide gross takings).


The similarity I'm alluding to is that some people have seen TLJ as overly politicised where as in fact you could say that about the original trilogy and certainly the prequel series.


Incidentally the Empire review lays out my feelings on the film very well, although I should point out that I read that after I saw the film.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last...

[chris watton]

warch said:

chris watton said:

warch said:

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

If that is the case, and you are defending this POS, why the disparity in BO ratings, if it's really so similar?

WTF? It's currently number 11 in the Top 100 films of all time (Worldwide gross takings).


The similarity I'm alluding to is that some people have seen TLJ as overly politicised where as in fact you could say that about the original trilogy and certainly the prequel series.


Incidentally the Empire review lays out my feelings on the film very well, although I should point out that I read that after I saw the film.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last...

I really wouldn't put too much stock into what Empire spouts. I remember a radio interview with a guy from Empire who openly stated that they give films with a certain cultural or ideological leaning an extra star or two, irrespective of the quality of the actual film.

I am also sceptical about the position of TLJ in the top 100 films of all time, what measure are they using for this, world-wide, domestic, or state? You can massage good figures to fit whatever you want!

All I know is this - I am no hard core SW fan, but I did buy both models and books off the back of TFA. Since TLJ I have bought nothing, I only spent £2.50 on that one cinema ticket to see it, when most of the mainstream reviewers lied about how amazing it is, even Mark Kermode. TLJ has been cited as one of the reasons large toy shop chains have now disappeared, no one was buying the new stuff based off the latest films.

By almost any measure, TLJ has been a financial disaster for Disney. People say that it did make a profit. Fine, but did it make its projected profit, and how far behind was it in reality?

[JagLover]

warch said:

WTF? It's currently number 11 in the Top 100 films of all time (Worldwide gross takings).

With franchise movies box office performance often follows on from previous movies rather than its own quality. Avengers infinity war for example followed on from Civil War, Thor 3 and Black Panther (though it is also a good movie in its own right)

TLJ was preceded by TFA and Rogue One, the movie that came immediately afterwards bombed.

warch said:

The similarity I'm alluding to is that some people have seen TLJ as overly politicised where as in fact you could say that about the original trilogy and certainly the prequel series.

The original trilogy had a very basic plot of resistance fighters against a fascist empire. U*nless you were a neo-Nazi it was the a very bipartisan unifying message. Identity politics is bitterly divisive.

warch said:

Incidentally the Empire review lays out my feelings on the film very well, although I should point out that I read that after I saw the film.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last...

Many publications and film reviewers lost credibility in the debacle of the TLJ reviews. Empire however has been rated movies on political grounds for well over a decade so frequent readers know to add or subtract stars accordingly.

[warch]

chris watton said:

I really wouldn't put too much stock into what Empire spouts. I remember a radio interview with a guy from Empire who openly stated that they give films with a certain cultural or ideological leaning an extra star or two, irrespective of the quality of the actual film.

I am also sceptical about the position of TLJ in the top 100 films of all time, what measure are they using for this, world-wide, domestic, or state? You can massage good figures to fit whatever you want!

All I know is this - I am no hard core SW fan, but I did buy both models and books off the back of TFA. Since TLJ I have bought nothing, I only spent £2.50 on that one cinema ticket to see it, when most of the mainstream reviewers lied about how amazing it is, even Mark Kermode. TLJ has been cited as one of the reasons large toy shop chains have now disappeared, no one was buying the new stuff based off the latest films.

By almost any measure, TLJ has been a financial disaster for Disney. People say that it did make a profit. Fine, but did it make its projected profit, and how far behind was it in reality?

Box office results.
http://www.filmsite.org/boxoffice.html or if you think that's fake news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-gros...

Can't really comment on the perfidious nature of the film reviewers, except that I agreed with Empire's review, in my opinion it accurately identified the good and bad points of the film.

Brick and mortar toy shops have been in decline for years now, due to the prevalence of online retailers, the fact that many traditional toy lines are in decline, models kits, railway sets etc. Even things like Star Wars figures are no longer really aimed at kids. Toys R Us was sunk because the company was massively in debt after a leveraged buyout (also part of the reason it was able to compete online) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toys-r-us-bankruptcy-...

I love all these conspiracy theories about TLJ, they're an endless source of amusement for me.

[Halb]

If Disney is gonna make a profit is interesting, the SW deal cost them 4 billion and seemingly they've made $415.5 + $780 from eps 8 & 7.
According to this
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2395121/how-much-...
not wholly sure if that is total profit or disney's total profit. Then there's rogue 1 as well, I'd guess at 300odd from looking at the revenue. SOlo lost 50.
but then there's toys and dvd sales which is in the profit bit.
I think things are gonna get muddier as the tv shows happen, they're gonna splurge 100 mill on one of them, and there are two scheduled so far


edit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2018/06/04/disn...
recouped a quarter of the initial outlay

Edited by Halb on Saturday 10th November 17:51

[warch]

To be fair I CGAF if Disney make money on Star Wars or not, although as correctly pointed out it is all about the merch (and always has been).

I do think that the pattern has been for both new Star Wars iterations that the first film The Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens did hugely well with diminishing box office returns for the sequels. The presence of a second film series interspersed with the main trilogy probably does reduce the anticipation for each new release.

[chris watton]

warch said:

Box office results.
http://www.filmsite.org/boxoffice.html or if you think that's fake news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-gros...

Can't really comment on the perfidious nature of the film reviewers, except that I agreed with Empire's review, in my opinion it accurately identified the good and bad points of the film.

Brick and mortar toy shops have been in decline for years now, due to the prevalence of online retailers, the fact that many traditional toy lines are in decline, models kits, railway sets etc. Even things like Star Wars figures are no longer really aimed at kids. Toys R Us was sunk because the company was massively in debt after a leveraged buyout (also part of the reason it was able to compete online) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toys-r-us-bankruptcy-...

I love all these conspiracy theories about TLJ, they're an endless source of amusement for me.

I have no clue about conspiracy theories, all I know is that the last time I spent any money on a SW related product, it was last Xmas with that £2.50 cinema ticket.

Before this time, I spent quite a lot on SW related stuff. This is a fact, not a conspiracy theory. I suspect I am not the only one.

[warch]

I have heard a surprising amount of frankly tin hatted bks pertaining to Star Wars films lately. That they're anti Trump, pro woman, anti men, pro ethnic minorities and that Disney are deliberately trying to sabotage their own IP. This what I mean by conspiracy theory.

[Halb]

It's true that companies do scuttle their own projects, usually after a management change, Disney have (likely) done it in the past, but not here, Bob Iger wants Sw to be a success.

[DoctorX]

FourWheelDrift said:

Quick question.

I liked Rogue One, I don't like Last Jedi. Should I bother with Solo?

Watched this tonight for the first time after TLJ introduced a CBA feeling about Star Wars films. I have to say I really enjoyed it.

[g3org3y]

warch said:

I have heard a surprising amount of frankly tin hatted bks pertaining to Star Wars films lately. That they're anti Trump, pro woman, anti men, pro ethnic minorities and that Disney are deliberately trying to sabotage their own IP. This what I mean by conspiracy theory.

[JagLover]

warch said:

I have heard a surprising amount of frankly tin hatted bks pertaining to Star Wars films lately. That they're anti Trump, pro woman, anti men, pro ethnic minorities and that Disney are deliberately trying to sabotage their own IP. This what I mean by conspiracy theory.

The only part of this post that sounds like a conspiracy theory is the Disney trying to sabotage their own IP, and arguable that the films have an "anti-Trump" message somehow.

Rather than conspiracy it is cock up. Disney gave the running of the franchise over to someone with no love for, and even it seems much knowledge of, Star Wars.

They would be unperturbed by a pro-woman message, or greater diversity, as these make for better PR and alone will not sink a movie (see Wonder Woman or Black Panther). What they wouldn't expect is for extreme political ideology to be worked into their billion dollar franchise and for basic writing and plot progression to be disregarded for this to take precedence.

[warch]

Actually the films being anti Trump, if indeed they are would be a good thing as only mentally ill people/septics could be pro Trump.

[Halb]

Originally, Iger was positioning himself at a run for office, the fox deal stopped that

[chris watton]

warch said:

Actually the films being anti Trump, if indeed they are would be a good thing as only mentally ill people/septics could be pro Trump.

Ah, now all is clear, you're one of those nutters who lives thousands of miles from the US but has an obsession with their politics all of a sudden.

Are you an NPC? It was silly of me to try and reason with you, knowing what I know now...

[IanH755]

chris watton said:

warch said:

Actually the films being anti Trump, if indeed they are would be a good thing as only mentally ill people/septics could be pro Trump.

Ah, now all is clear, you're one of those nutters who lives thousands of miles from the US but has an obsession with their politics all of a sudden.

Are you an NPC? It was silly of me to try and reason with you, knowing what I know now...

Yeap, the prejudice is strong with padawan Warch.

[warch]

Yes because U.S. politics has nothing to do with the rest of the world does it. I've either stumbled on a rich vein of wilful stupidity or you're all trolling.

[techguyone]

g3org3y said:

warch said:

I have heard a surprising amount of frankly tin hatted bks pertaining to Star Wars films lately. That they're anti Trump, pro woman, anti men, pro ethnic minorities and that Disney are deliberately trying to sabotage their own IP. This what I mean by conspiracy theory.

Never really equating the Force with any gender characterisation.
I never got 'The Force is Female' myself, do these people not realise by beating people over the head with a blunt stick - repeatedly, the message is lost and usually despised as a result.

Is the Force only for girls now? given how Disney seemed to have truly screwed up the franchise, it's looking more like the Force isn't for anyone anymore.

[g3org3y]

It never needed to be a thing. I can't understand the mentality/train of thought that felt this was the correct direction of travel for the franchise.

Is the Hollywood echo chamber such that there is a total lack of insight? I genuinely suspect yes, as the humour in TLJ is so poorly judged it fails in an entirely 'not sure if serious' way. This is either fundamental incompetence or total lack of understanding about the tone of Star Wars.

All it needed was a good story and a level of respect shown to the source material (especially the beloved original characters) and to the fans as well. It needed someone passionate about Star Wars behind the helm, not someone passionate about pushing gender politics (and various other agendas).

It's a fairy-tale in space, not a vessel for political points scoring or gender inequality messages. It's a shame it has been used in this way and the Hollywood circle jerk crowd congratulate themselves for doing so.

It is the fans who have made Star Wars the behemoth that it is today. Alienating and in fact directly attacking them for not liking this new type of Star Wars is unwise. What is a franchise without its core fans? Perhaps they feel they can do without the old dinosaur fans and it'll be the new young fans who'll see them through. Perhaps, though I'm not so sure.

[FourWheelDrift]

techguyone said:

g3org3y said:

warch said:

I have heard a surprising amount of frankly tin hatted bks pertaining to Star Wars films lately. That they're anti Trump, pro woman, anti men, pro ethnic minorities and that Disney are deliberately trying to sabotage their own IP. This what I mean by conspiracy theory.

Never really equating the Force with any gender characterisation.
I never got 'The Force is Female' myself, do these people not realise by beating people over the head with a blunt stick - repeatedly, the message is lost and usually despised as a result.

Is the Force only for girls now? given how Disney seemed to have truly screwed up the franchise, it's looking more like the Force isn't for anyone anymore.

It's is the worst kind of sexist. Imagine if men wore The Force is Male t-shirts. And also typically goldfish memory feminista inclusive, conveniently forgetting the fully fledged female Jedi in the prequels of which there were many and of course Leia discovering her ability in the original, sensing Luke at Cloud City.