Star Trek: Discovery - New series on Netflix
Discussion
jagnet said:
No matter how bad it gets we just need to be grateful that we get a new Star Trek? Count me out of that audience demographic please; I'd rather it continued its hiatus than have bad Star Trek.
No one expects the sets to be an accurate recreation of those in TOS; Enterprise managed to update the look for a modern audience whilst set 100 years prior to TOS and still remained very much Star Trek with its sense of optimism and excitement at exploring space.
Ignoring for a moment all the issues with canon etc, even from just a simple visual perspective, teal and orange plus added lens flare and crushed blacks may currently be fashionable for the "cinematic" look but it's really not Star Trek and I reckon it'll date very quickly now that we must surely have reached peak teal whereby even orange is struggling to get a look in:
Versus the old days when we used to have colour TVs and the cameramen weren't drunk:
It's no wonder the crew of Discovery look permanently depressed - the space equivalent of seasonal affective disorder?
you could make an argument for ST:NG wearing romper suits being not particularly kindly treated by time....No one expects the sets to be an accurate recreation of those in TOS; Enterprise managed to update the look for a modern audience whilst set 100 years prior to TOS and still remained very much Star Trek with its sense of optimism and excitement at exploring space.
Ignoring for a moment all the issues with canon etc, even from just a simple visual perspective, teal and orange plus added lens flare and crushed blacks may currently be fashionable for the "cinematic" look but it's really not Star Trek and I reckon it'll date very quickly now that we must surely have reached peak teal whereby even orange is struggling to get a look in:
Versus the old days when we used to have colour TVs and the cameramen weren't drunk:
It's no wonder the crew of Discovery look permanently depressed - the space equivalent of seasonal affective disorder?
I do like ST
and the new captain has really helped compared to S1sparks_E46 said:
Discovery being good or bad is down to personal preference, I think it’s good, and it’s been a tremendous success for CBS. Season 2 so far seems to lean more towards the exploration side we are used to.
I'm really not sure that CBS would be calling it a tremendous success. The budget for it is massive and after S1's reception then Netflix aren't covering the production costs like they did previously. With the huge costs of reshooting many of the episodes, changing showrunners, lack of new All Access memberships in any significant number etc, having to more or less give the 4 Short Treks away, still no news on S3, giving S2E1 away on youtube (allegedly to get some reliable data because they can't trust their own due to the vested interests inside CBS), I doubt those at the top of CBS are popping the champagne corks over it at the moment.sparks_E46 said:
That’s a terrible photoshop of Picard 
We can certainly agree on that.CaptainSensib1e said:
As a casual Star Trek fan I'm enjoying it. I can understand why the die hard fans don't love it, but they have aimed to create something which will appeal to the masses and I thnik they have suceeded.
Its a good observation this. Its about making it as relevant as possible to older viewers but also engaging enough for modern TV to work with newer viewers. I watch some of the TNG episodes over and the style on the whole is very slow moving but somewhat thought provoking. Not sure that is the remit of the new one which is what they have pushed out there, now its a bit more pacey and action based. A lot of the apparent action in STD is down to the editing with fast visual cuts and lots of camera movement even when there's not actually much happening, seemingly often used to cover up a dull script. Very different in feel to all other ST. I'm not convinced that a show has to do this to appeal to a modern audience - GoT for example has a lot of slow paced scenes that thoughtfully developed characters and plot and didn't suffer for it.
Imho without slow paced sections to act as a contrast then the action when it does happens feels lessened as a result. It all becomes tiresome noise, much like the excessive dynamic compression in digital music.
Imho without slow paced sections to act as a contrast then the action when it does happens feels lessened as a result. It all becomes tiresome noise, much like the excessive dynamic compression in digital music.
I wouldn't say the overall pace of STD is frantic, its certainly a lot more pacey than previous ST but slow enough to keep up with story development. IMHO I think it was the cost of special effects and action historically meant that it had to be slower paced, you couldn't afford to have a big space battle raging week in week out on TNG, 90% of it had to be people chatting sat on beige comfy sofas on a space ship.
I'd say it was quite frantic, not least because of the amount of stories that they're trying to fit in. Ep4 had, I think, four story lines going on at once rather than the usual main plus one subplot with perhaps an overriding series arc touched upon. Ep3 was a mad chaotic mess of stuff.
There's no doubt that the pace of shows has increased; watching an arty 1970s drama often requires several cups of coffee to get through these days and lengthy scenes of cars pulling up to houses were as much about saving money as setting the tone. I'm sure that NG would be a little faster paced if filmed now (there's a few NG episodes that were a bit too 'sofas and feelings' for my tastes), but STD to me feels a bit too OTT in terms of pace, as if the crew have all been hitting the Red Bull a little too hard.
Of the four episodes we've had so far this season, Ep2 still stands out above the others as being the most ST in feel and I think a lot of that was the pacing from having Jonathan Frakes as director.
There's no doubt that the pace of shows has increased; watching an arty 1970s drama often requires several cups of coffee to get through these days and lengthy scenes of cars pulling up to houses were as much about saving money as setting the tone. I'm sure that NG would be a little faster paced if filmed now (there's a few NG episodes that were a bit too 'sofas and feelings' for my tastes), but STD to me feels a bit too OTT in terms of pace, as if the crew have all been hitting the Red Bull a little too hard.
Of the four episodes we've had so far this season, Ep2 still stands out above the others as being the most ST in feel and I think a lot of that was the pacing from having Jonathan Frakes as director.
I think the pacing has something to do with the very different style of storyline for STD where it is a constant ongoing shifting story episode to episode whereas in many other ST series were pretty much always standalone, you could pick any episode in TNG, Voyager or DS9 and just watch it. For STD you have the ongoing storyline each episode to keep up with as well as the new bits that appear to keep the trekkies happy. Its get a bit messy, but personally I have no problem keeping up.
I still think that the messiness is from having to course correct somewhat and reshoot so much footage rather than from abandoning the episodic style of previous Trek. Again, taking GoT as an example, they had many on going story arcs to deal with but the pacing felt pretty much perfect (until series 7 anyway).
The biggest problem that STD has imho is from having too large a budget and consequently having too much expectation put on it with regards its mass market appeal. It's always had a fairly niche appeal but a very loyal fan base. To make the jump ST needed incredibly talented writers, great characters and casting and people behind it that love and understand Star Trek. STD got none of things imho. Moonves didn't even like Star Trek, CBS have no experience with Star Trek, Bad Robot are in it for the merchandising, the Burnham character is there primarily for political ideology and most of the writers have no experience of sci-fi. It was pretty much doomed from the start.
They are at least trying to improve things with series 2 and get a bit more Star Trek of old into it, develop the characters, etc but it still has a long way to go imho.
The biggest problem that STD has imho is from having too large a budget and consequently having too much expectation put on it with regards its mass market appeal. It's always had a fairly niche appeal but a very loyal fan base. To make the jump ST needed incredibly talented writers, great characters and casting and people behind it that love and understand Star Trek. STD got none of things imho. Moonves didn't even like Star Trek, CBS have no experience with Star Trek, Bad Robot are in it for the merchandising, the Burnham character is there primarily for political ideology and most of the writers have no experience of sci-fi. It was pretty much doomed from the start.
They are at least trying to improve things with series 2 and get a bit more Star Trek of old into it, develop the characters, etc but it still has a long way to go imho.
jagnet said:
I'm really not sure that CBS would be calling it a tremendous success. The budget for it is massive and after S1's reception then Netflix aren't covering the production costs like they did previously. With the huge costs of reshooting many of the episodes, changing showrunners, lack of new All Access memberships in any significant number etc, having to more or less give the 4 Short Treks away, still no news on S3, giving S2E1 away on youtube (allegedly to get some reliable data because they can't trust their own due to the vested interests inside CBS), I doubt those at the top of CBS are popping the champagne corks over it at the moment.
Yeah, from the looks of it, S1 has been a flop (like the films), and now they are desperately trying to course correct.From the outside looking in, it looks like CBS are trying to foce TRek to ape other sci-fi, where it falls down.
I like the RLM reviews since the main guy is a massive trekkie. He's reviewed the whole series.
Halb said:
jagnet said:
I'm really not sure that CBS would be calling it a tremendous success. The budget for it is massive and after S1's reception then Netflix aren't covering the production costs like they did previously. With the huge costs of reshooting many of the episodes, changing showrunners, lack of new All Access memberships in any significant number etc, having to more or less give the 4 Short Treks away, still no news on S3, giving S2E1 away on youtube (allegedly to get some reliable data because they can't trust their own due to the vested interests inside CBS), I doubt those at the top of CBS are popping the champagne corks over it at the moment.
Yeah, from the looks of it, S1 has been a flop (like the films), and now they are desperately trying to course correct.From the outside looking in, it looks like CBS are trying to foce TRek to ape other sci-fi, where it falls down.
I like the RLM reviews since the main guy is a massive trekkie. He's reviewed the whole series.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/15/cbs-chief-tells-i...
LoonyTunes said:
Halb said:
jagnet said:
I'm really not sure that CBS would be calling it a tremendous success. The budget for it is massive and after S1's reception then Netflix aren't covering the production costs like they did previously. With the huge costs of reshooting many of the episodes, changing showrunners, lack of new All Access memberships in any significant number etc, having to more or less give the 4 Short Treks away, still no news on S3, giving S2E1 away on youtube (allegedly to get some reliable data because they can't trust their own due to the vested interests inside CBS), I doubt those at the top of CBS are popping the champagne corks over it at the moment.
Yeah, from the looks of it, S1 has been a flop (like the films), and now they are desperately trying to course correct.From the outside looking in, it looks like CBS are trying to foce TRek to ape other sci-fi, where it falls down.
I like the RLM reviews since the main guy is a massive trekkie. He's reviewed the whole series.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/15/cbs-chief-tells-i...
LoonyTunes said:
CBS themselves say Season 1 was a "runaway success"
https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/15/cbs-chief-tells-i...
Well if Les Moonves says that it's a runaway success then it must be, after all he seems such a decent, respectable chap and definitely hasn't got a vested interest in STD after being the one to greenlight it and banking on its success to increase All Access subscribers. Absolutely not the sort of person that would offer someone an acting job before sexually assaulting them.https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/15/cbs-chief-tells-i...
Maybe we should set a new thread up for people who actually like Discovery.
Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was s
t, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.
If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was s
t, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
ThunderSpook said:
Maybe we should set a new thread up for people who actually like Discovery.
Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was st, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.
If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
Well said.Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was s
t, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
I'm a massive Star Trek fan, but this post sums it all up nicely for me. My wife isn't a huge fan of the ST universe, but she loves Discovery too, which is great news for me. Long may it continue.
ThunderSpook said:
Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
.
How might that conversation go then?.
'Better cancel Star Trek - there's a few on a UK car forum that don't like it much'
'But the viewing figures are....'
'Ignore them - Car enthusiast approval is far more important'
ThunderSpook said:
Maybe we should set a new thread up for people who actually like Discovery.
Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was st, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.
If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
Conversely , if this was really half as good as you try to make out, there would be far less detractors, wouldn't there? Look at other threads with more popular TV series' and look at the love/hate ratio of posts, most love really good TV.Personally, if you lot get this cancelled because of your incessant whinging I shall be really pissed off.
Basically, TOS was s
t, TNG was awesome but looks soooo dated, DS9 was dull, Voyager was pretty good, Enterprise was cack because it tried to stick to canon, Discovery is very much here and now and reflects what TV is like these days. It’s awesome, get used to it.If you don’t like the fact that they ignored a piece of canon that only 3 people (including you) know about, watch something else. Discussing how a show fits in with history is one thing, ripping it to shreds constantly every week over the same stuff will only lead to it being cancelled which eventually leads to no Star Trek.
I cannot comment on the quality of the latest series of STD as I decided life's too short, but it seems to me, based on proper user reviews (not MSM crap), that this particular incarnation of Star Trek will be very lucky to get a third season.
chris watton said:
Conversely , if this was really half as good as you try to make out, there would be far less detractors, wouldn't there? Look at other threads with more popular TV series' and look at the love/hate ratio of posts, most love really good TV.
I cannot comment on the quality of the latest series of STD as I decided life's too short, but it seems to me, based on proper user reviews (not MSM crap), that this particular incarnation of Star Trek will be very lucky to get a third season.
Everyone has an opinion of course, but I think the point being made is not the quality of the screen writing or acting, more that there are a section of Trekkies that just consistently whinge that 'its not star trek' because it doesn't have canon storyline no matter how good the episode might be. Like someone said, if you remade TNG now it would be binned within a series, it is by modern terms slow, unremarkable, and very predictable.I cannot comment on the quality of the latest series of STD as I decided life's too short, but it seems to me, based on proper user reviews (not MSM crap), that this particular incarnation of Star Trek will be very lucky to get a third season.
I like it that they are attempting to take ST into a new era, sure there will be the die hards that stamp their feet and complain that 4th generation cross Human-Vulcans have ears that protrude slightly more forwards than depicted in the latest episode so therefore that episode is crap, but I like to think its well worth taking it at face value - there is still plenty of Trek in there to make it relevant. Even Roddenberry himself often binned the canon in the name of making particular episodes work and who are we to argue with him?
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