Star Trek: Discovery - New series on Netflix

[Rumblestripe]

smn159 said:

Rumblestripe said:

Do the posters on the Orville thread have to wade through pages full of people telling them why they are wrong to like it before finding any discussion of events in the latest episode?

Is your ;point that only 'positive' opinions on the show should be allowed in a thread discussing it?

What is the allowable ratio of praise v posts giving a view on what's wrong with it?

Merely that after so many episodes it might be time to let it go?

It seems to be the same with the Star Wars threads particularly the "The Lest Jedi" which went on for months after the DVD/BR release with people posting links to You Tube videos demonstrating why (presumably because some random guy on the internet posted an opinion that coincided with the hater's own) they were "right" to hate it. It is beyond dull.

Yes, everyone has the right to an opinion, doesn't mean we all want to hear it over and over and over and over... again.

Something new to say, fair enough. A criticism of the latest storyline/ episode, fair enough. Telling us again how it isn't "proper" Star Trek, how it isn't "canon", is quite enough already, thank you.

[LoonyTunes]

smn159 said:

coldel said:

I do wonder if there is any pleasing some people though. Fans believe they own the franchise. What if they did pretty much a copy of TNG all we would hear is how unoriginal it is and thats its lazy writing for copying TNG and a poor mans Picard. The 'canon' is just a thing to make super fans feel important i.e. be able to talk knowledgeably about stuff written decades ago, its a shame that it cannot be accepted that STD is trying to ironically seek out new fans and new civilisations, to boldly try something that has never been tried before

The Orville is a superbly written homage to TNG and it's in a different league to STD

It's in a different league thats for sure.

A much lower one.

[chris watton]

LoonyTunes said:

smn159 said:

coldel said:

I do wonder if there is any pleasing some people though. Fans believe they own the franchise. What if they did pretty much a copy of TNG all we would hear is how unoriginal it is and thats its lazy writing for copying TNG and a poor mans Picard. The 'canon' is just a thing to make super fans feel important i.e. be able to talk knowledgeably about stuff written decades ago, its a shame that it cannot be accepted that STD is trying to ironically seek out new fans and new civilisations, to boldly try something that has never been tried before

The Orville is a superbly written homage to TNG and it's in a different league to STD

It's in a different league thats for sure.

A much lower one.

If we are talking blatant plagiarism rather than loving homage, then you are quite correct.

[LoonyTunes]

chris watton said:

LoonyTunes said:

smn159 said:

coldel said:

I do wonder if there is any pleasing some people though. Fans believe they own the franchise. What if they did pretty much a copy of TNG all we would hear is how unoriginal it is and thats its lazy writing for copying TNG and a poor mans Picard. The 'canon' is just a thing to make super fans feel important i.e. be able to talk knowledgeably about stuff written decades ago, its a shame that it cannot be accepted that STD is trying to ironically seek out new fans and new civilisations, to boldly try something that has never been tried before

The Orville is a superbly written homage to TNG and it's in a different league to STD

It's in a different league thats for sure.

A much lower one.

If we are talking blatant plagiarism rather than loving homage, then you are quite correct.

The Orville is a flat-out childrens show. A 'Muppets do Star Trek' kind of thing.

I mean FFS...

[chris watton]

LoonyTunes said:

The Orville is a flat-out childrens show. A 'Muppets do Star Trek' kind of thing.

I mean FFS...

Telling that you do not mention STD and the plagiarism lawsuit in your retort.

I have no real love for the Orville, it is watchable (whereas STD is not), and that's about all - so I am no fan boy. I can take it or leave it. I prefer The Expanse.

[smn159]

chris watton said:

I can take it or leave it.

You need to hand in your PH card. Everyone knows that you need to pick a 'side' and defend it to the death on here, regardless of the subject being discussed.

[LoonyTunes]

chris watton said:

LoonyTunes said:

The Orville is a flat-out childrens show. A 'Muppets do Star Trek' kind of thing.

I mean FFS...

Telling that you do not mention STD and the plagiarism lawsuit in your retort.

I have no real love for the Orville, it is watchable (whereas STD is not), and that's about all - so I am no fan boy. I can take it or leave it. I prefer The Expanse.

What's telling?

Even if it is plagiarised - so what? - it's a far superior show in every single respect.

I couldn't care less who thought of the tardigrades storyline.

I love the Expanse too which is hard sci-fi and in many ways so is Discovery.

[Guvernator]

It's very obvious a certain percentage of dyed in the wool fans want nothing more than the same old same old, every year. They like the familiarity so anything different will be met with derision. This is the same with any long running franchise, I can even sort of understand it in a way but I do find the wailing and gnashing of teeth rather amusing tbh, there is no one so angry as a butt hurt fan boy. Some people need to step away from their Trek costumes and "officially licensed tricorder replica's".

Luckily the new Picard series will probably cater very well to that set of fans as I suspect it will stay very close to the previously established formula. Personally I think there is plenty of room for both kinds of shows so I'm glad they are both being made, I'm enjoying STD but equally looking forward to Picard.

As for Orville, it's a lightweight, easy watching pastiche, something you can have on in the background as you do other stuff but it's not really on the same level as STD or any of the real Trek series and I have no strong compulsion to watch it unless I have nothing else to watch.

[DanL]

chris watton said:

Telling that you do not mention STD and the plagiarism lawsuit in your retort.

I have no real love for the Orville, it is watchable (whereas STD is not), and that's about all - so I am no fan boy. I can take it or leave it. I prefer The Expanse.

The Expanse is excellent - it's pleasing Amazon appear to have saved it. Altered Carbon is also excellent, if you happen to have Netflix...

In terms of plagiarism:

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2018/09/11/underst...

... but either way people borrow or recreate concepts all the time - if you can explain why the Borg aren't basically a rip off of the Cybermen from Dr Who, you're a better person than me!

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

The Orville is a flat-out childrens show. A 'Muppets do Star Trek' kind of thing.

I mean FFS...

yes - because this is sooooo much better

[LoonyTunes]

irocfan said:

LoonyTunes said:

The Orville is a flat-out childrens show. A 'Muppets do Star Trek' kind of thing.

I mean FFS...

yes - because this is sooooo much better

It actually was better at the time than the green blob is now. It was killing people and melting rock to escape.

It wasn't a cartoon addition to a show throwing out stand-up style one-liners around the place.

and lest we forget It was also 50 years ago - and it's NOT on Discovery

[Flip Martian]

Anyone in here would think Discovery is only watched by 12 year olds, the amount of "how dare you dislike the show I like, let me prove how stupid you are" posts.

[coldel]

I like the show, but the incessant rantings of canon etc. is so tiresome it is got to the point where you just have to laugh. And no I didnt try and be personal and dress it up as humour, it was humour, but some people on this thread are so stuck in canon rant mode they cannot see it.

Some people like it and talk about the show on this thread, others want to derail it by 'proving' they are proper 'trekkies' by citing canon or whatever in some 80 page effort to somehow prove their point. How about just giving it a rest and letting people who like the show talk about the show and those that don't can go start up their own thread to comment on the intricacies of the start trek universe and moan to their hearts content on there.

[glazbagun]

coldel said:

I like the show, but the incessant rantings of canon etc. is so tiresome it is got to the point where you just have to laugh. And no I didnt try and be personal and dress it up as humour, it was humour, but some people on this thread are so stuck in canon rant mode they cannot see it.

Some people like it and talk about the show on this thread, others want to derail it by 'proving' they are proper 'trekkies' by citing canon or whatever in some 80 page effort to somehow prove their point. How about just giving it a rest and letting people who like the show talk about the show and those that don't can go start up their own thread to comment on the intricacies of the start trek universe and moan to their hearts content on there.

Can't it be both? Canon is what gives the universe it's depth, otherwise it could be any other "people in space" show- warp drive, transporters, prime directive, Vulcans and logic, Klingons and honour all that stuff is canon.

Pike seeing a terrible fate and choosing it for the greater good is a great use of canon. If we didn't already know how he'd end up, that would have been a much weaker scene. Working with canon enhances the work.

Recharging dilithium (assuming they can do it- the girl with the knowledge may yet die/it not work) a half century before Spock and Scotty figure it out ruins the enjoyment of previous work.

So how things fit with canon are certainly a part of the show and a criteria to be included when judging the quality of writing.

[Rumblestripe]

glazbagun said:

coldel said:

I like the show, but the incessant rantings of canon etc. is so tiresome it is got to the point where you just have to laugh. And no I didnt try and be personal and dress it up as humour, it was humour, but some people on this thread are so stuck in canon rant mode they cannot see it.

Some people like it and talk about the show on this thread, others want to derail it by 'proving' they are proper 'trekkies' by citing canon or whatever in some 80 page effort to somehow prove their point. How about just giving it a rest and letting people who like the show talk about the show and those that don't can go start up their own thread to comment on the intricacies of the start trek universe and moan to their hearts content on there.

Can't it be both? Canon is what gives the universe it's depth, otherwise it could be any other "people in space" show- warp drive, transporters, prime directive, Vulcans and logic, Klingons and honour all that stuff is canon.

Pike seeing a terrible fate and choosing it for the greater good is a great use of canon. If we didn't already know how he'd end up, that would have been a much weaker scene. Working with canon enhances the work.

Recharging dilithium (assuming they can do it- the girl with the knowledge may yet die/it not work) a half century before Spock and Scotty figure it out ruins the enjoyment of previous work.

So how things fit with canon are certainly a part of the show and a criteria to be included when judging the quality of writing.

As I said before if it is germane to a new plot line then that is fair enough (if a little OTT geeky) and quite simply if the girl genius who has worked out the recrystallisation of dilithium aint telling anyone then there is no break with "canon". It is likely that "the wheel" was re-invented several times in human history, for example.

But if the posters who cannot help themselves and post about "Super Michael" or how much they dislike Tilly etc. could just STFU, I think we would have a better thread.

[smn159]

Why don't fans of the show spend more time discussing plot points, if that's what they want this thread to be about, and less time whinging about posts which don't align with their own views.

[Rumblestripe]

smn159 said:

Why don't fans of the show spend more time discussing plot points, if that's what they want this thread to be about, and less time whinging about posts which don't align with their own views.

Yes, that would be lovely. We do try. We went for quite a few weeks without this, it looked like we were free...

For contrast go and have a look at The Orville thread. I don't watch it so I just looked through the last three pages of the thread. Not one single post rubbishing the series. I counted. None. Zero. Nowt. Nada. Etc.

Perhaps it's perfect? I doubt it, but maybe I should give it another go? Perhaps not. Who cares?

Why then does this thread have to put up with these outbreaks of hate? That is not to say that I want the thread to be a torrent of unending praise. Criticism like the "recrystallisation of dilithium" thing mentioned a few posts back is certainly welcome and interesting. The constant bile spewing at the Burham and Tilly characters in particular is tedious. I get that people don't like the series, that's fine. We all like different stuff. I know that fan boys are "invested" in Star Trek Lore to an extraordinary extent and so those who haven't taken to it have an agenda but we are nearly at the end of the second series. Move on for fks sake.

[smn159]

Rumblestripe said:

Yes, that would be lovely. We do try. We went for quite a few weeks without this, it looked like we were free...

For contrast go and have a look at The Orville thread. I don't watch it so I just looked through the last three pages of the thread. Not one single post rubbishing the series. I counted. None. Zero. Nowt. Nada. Etc.

Perhaps it's perfect? I doubt it, but maybe I should give it another go? Perhaps not. Who cares?

Why then does this thread have to put up with these outbreaks of hate? That is not to say that I want the thread to be a torrent of unending praise. Criticism like the "recrystallisation of dilithium" thing mentioned a few posts back is certainly welcome and interesting. The constant bile spewing at the Burham and Tilly characters in particular is tedious. I get that people don't like the series, that's fine. We all like different stuff. I know that fan boys are "invested" in Star Trek Lore to an extraordinary extent and so those who haven't taken to it have an agenda but we are nearly at the end of the second series. Move on for fks sake.

So anyone pointing out its flaws is a 'fan boy... invested in Star Trek Lore' and has an agenda?

These assertions have come up a few times recently - feel a bit like you're 'protesting too much' on the Fan Boy thing.

We get that you like the series, maybe even are "invested" in it. Different opinions to yours are not 'outbreaks of hate' though.

[Rumblestripe]

smn159 said:

So anyone pointing out its flaws is a 'fan boy... invested in Star Trek Lore' and has an agenda?

Erm, yeah. I think so when they point the same thing out over and over and over again, two seasons and two years later.

Have a good look at The Orville thread. People simply discussing a program they enjoy. I didn't enjoy it but I don't feel the need to go on that thread and tell people why it isn't as fabulous as they all think. Now I understand that Star Trek is a program that brings with it a certain fan base. So people were going to have strong opinions about it. And I cannot stop them posting on here it isn't my board, I'm just trying to let those people know they are being tiresome. That's it.

[Flip Martian]

Rumblestripe said:

Erm, yeah. I think so when they point the same thing out over and over and over again, two seasons and two years later.

Have a good look at The Orville thread. People simply discussing a program they enjoy. I didn't enjoy it but I don't feel the need to go on that thread and tell people why it isn't as fabulous as they all think. Now I understand that Star Trek is a program that brings with it a certain fan base. So people were going to have strong opinions about it. And I cannot stop them posting on here it isn't my board, I'm just trying to let those people know they are being tiresome. That's it.

It annoys me because it could be so much better - the good bits are in there. I can see the flaws but then that's not Discovery specific, I see much modern tv is badly written to a forumla learned in script school, seemingly.

I don't lose sleep over it, I just took the opportunity to discuss my opinion in a related thread. Am I an ST fan? Yeah, usually. Have I ever wore pointed ears, a uniform, gone to conventions or recited the script word for word? No. Do I get bothered when people post how much they like the series? Er...no again, it's just a tv series I have a vague interest in.