Star Trek: Discovery - New series on Netflix

[HD Adam]

_dobbo_ said:

It's amusing to me how often "woke" is used as a criticism of Discovery.

The entire concept and ethos of the federation is "woke" by any reasonable definition. So every series of Star Trek has been woke by the standards of the time.

Also I never understood "woke" as a supposed insult.

Agreed.

The Original Series.

Black female bridge officer during the Jim Crow era? Check.

Japanese bridge officer only 20 years after WW2? Check

Russian Bridge officer during the Cold War? Check

Episodes like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield with its "Racism is stupid" message doesn't get more woke, especially for the 60's.

[Catatafish]

The woke stuff is fine, everyone can be gay in the 35th century or whenever it is set, just write some good stories.

[Flip Martian]

HD Adam said:

Agreed.

The Original Series.

Black female bridge officer during the Jim Crow era? Check.

Japanese bridge officer only 20 years after WW2? Check

Russian Bridge officer during the Cold War? Check

Episodes like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield with its "Racism is stupid" message doesn't get more woke, especially for the 60's.

As I said, nobody criticising STD for being "woke" is denying any of that.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:

troc said:

I persisted to the bitter end.










I wish I hadn’t.

Did it make you cry?

Yes, but not for the reasons they intended.

[markiii]

tangerine_sedge said:

_dobbo_ said:

It's amusing to me how often "woke" is used as a criticism of Discovery.

The entire concept and ethos of the federation is "woke" by any reasonable definition. So every series of Star Trek has been woke by the standards of the time.

Also I never understood "woke" as a supposed insult.

I think it's used mostly by those 'fans' who think that every Star Trek franchise should be "wagon train in space" and that anything that doesn't follow that formula is not really Star Trek. They haven't worked out that this show is not made for them, but is for a newer younger untapped audience of sci-fi fans.

Based on the viewing figures it seems to have failed at that

[ThomW]

A few episodes into Series 4 and one thing has really stood out so far. When in the future, everything is optimised to its absolute best, I can’t help thinking that someone being overweight like Tilly just wouldn’t be a thing. Nutrition, exercise, all that stuff. No other people are overweight. It just wouldn’t be a thing.

[_dobbo_]

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

[goldar]

You're fat, aren't you?

[Gadgetmac]

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

[hotchy]

Gadgetmac said:

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

They have food replicators. It may be the future but basics instinct exists still. Any food ever made within seconds. I'm suprised she's the only one.

[Gadgetmac]

hotchy said:

Gadgetmac said:

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

They have food replicators. It may be the future but basics instinct exists still. Any food ever made within seconds. I'm suprised she's the only one.

Nah. You'd take one pill at the first sign of being overweight and hey presto.

[ThomW]

Gadgetmac said:

hotchy said:

Gadgetmac said:

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

They have food replicators. It may be the future but basics instinct exists still. Any food ever made within seconds. I'm suprised she's the only one.

Nah. You'd take one pill at the first sign of being overweight and hey presto.

This is exactly my point. Overweight is unhealthy, that’s a simple biological fact. And that simply wouldn’t be a thing. And actually, being unhealthy wouldn’t be allowed in something like Starfleet - they want the best of the best.

Yes they can replicate anything, but it wouldn’t be packed with trans fats, sugar wouldn’t be the same thing etc.

[Flip Martian]

ThomW said:

Gadgetmac said:

hotchy said:

Gadgetmac said:

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

They have food replicators. It may be the future but basics instinct exists still. Any food ever made within seconds. I'm suprised she's the only one.

Nah. You'd take one pill at the first sign of being overweight and hey presto.

This is exactly my point. Overweight is unhealthy, that’s a simple biological fact. And that simply wouldn’t be a thing. And actually, being unhealthy wouldn’t be allowed in something like Starfleet - they want the best of the best.

Yes they can replicate anything, but it wouldn’t be packed with trans fats, sugar wouldn’t be the same thing etc.

Agreed. An overweight actor was in the series purely so they could tick a box; same as the gay and trans gender characters. Discovery, above anything else, is a box ticking exercise by people who imagine that previous ST didn't address "issues" at all. Despite many of those series handling equality better than Disco has done... Just by not shouting "I AM GAY" and "RESPECT MY PRONOUN OF CHOICE" at the camera every few minutes.

The other thing being missed about Tilly (ignoring her sudden ability to make decisions in later seasons) is that there is no way she would have been seen as Star Fleet material as she appeared early on. Whenever you see ensigns or academy grads in the other series, they're always self confident with a certain amount of ability. She seemed to have none, apart from to be the "oh wooh, my god what do we do" character, which made no sense at all.

Edit: I'm not hating on the whole equality thing either. I just don't think being as unsubtle and jarring as it often was, is the best way of dealing with it. "ok, the captain has asked me to do this really urgent thing but I have a sudden need to talk about a repressed memory which I just realised is stopping me moving forward, so the urgent thing can wait". And the clumsy:

"Stamitz, actually I prefer to be referred to as they, not him/her".
"Oh! Ok! Great"

I really think they'd have got around that issue in the 23rd century already and Stametz wouldn't have needed telling. Far better just to use that pronoun throughout for that character.

The poor scripts and characterisation in Disco were the worst part of it. That seems to get ignored in the "we cannot criticise it because they are delivering this positive message" stuff.

Edited by Flip Martian on Friday 13th January 09:49

[BabySharkDD]

hotchy said:

Gadgetmac said:

_dobbo_ said:

Maybe you've missed the point of how an egalitarian non judgemental, inclusive world would be. How Star Fleet would be. Maybe Tilly wants to look like that and it's her choice? Maybe, and I can't believe I'm saying this, we shouldn't even be commenting on how Tilly looks? Maybe in the future people won't st all over how someone looks? Not today though, thanks to you.

I actually think it's you that is missing the point. Being fat is unhealthy and in the far future being unhealthy won't be something anybody smart enough to have risen to her position would choose to do when it will be so easily solvable.

They have food replicators. It may be the future but basics instinct exists still. Any food ever made within seconds. I'm suprised she's the only one.

She’s a Pakled in disguise

[rider73]

given how genetics could be used, everyone would the the same shape and intelligence - optimised to deliver the maximum performance possible using the current technology....
who'd want to come from a planet where gravity is so much your just a blob on the floor, thats very unhealthy on a starship designed with another type of gravity all together, so genetically change you to match that...........
cant speak properly to other, modify you
cant breath the atmosphere as you used to breath water, modify you


hmmmmm perhaps the BORG was right ;-)

[AlexC1981]

Tilly wasn't fat in season 1, she got slowly fatter over the years. She wasn't stick thin in season 1, but certainly not overweight. I don't know if that was intentional for the part, but she is an actress and sometimes these things happen!

I doubt being overweight would be a health risk in the 23rd century anyway.

rider73 said:

given how genetics could be used, everyone would the the same shape and intelligence - optimised to deliver the maximum performance possible using the current technology....
who'd want to come from a planet where gravity is so much your just a blob on the floor, thats very unhealthy on a starship designed with another type of gravity all together, so genetically change you to match that...........
cant speak properly to other, modify you
cant breath the atmosphere as you used to breath water, modify you


hmmmmm perhaps the BORG was right ;-)

Genetic engineering isn't permitted in the Federation due to the eugenics wars. See Kahn in Star Trek II and Dr Bashir in DS9.

[rider73]

Yeah cos everyone in the federation always follows the rules... Modern trek shows that's never the case....
And there plenty of non federation with the knowledge also. The universe is a big place
....
And my point want supposed to be taken literally. As a universe , made up by us, there had to be done dramatic leeway in order for any sort of story to be told that bears any sort of relevance to us, otherwise as I said in my post, it would end up being a load of motorised bipeds telepathically connected...

[Flip Martian]

AlexC1981 said:

Tilly wasn't fat in season 1, she got slowly fatter over the years. She wasn't stick thin in season 1, but certainly not overweight. I don't know if that was intentional for the part, but she is an actress and sometimes these things happen!

I doubt being overweight would be a health risk in the 23rd century anyway.

I think she was actually pregnant during filming in real life at some point. Sure I read that somewhere - not sure which season.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Gadgetmac said:

Nah. You'd take one pill at the first sign of being overweight and hey presto.

Couldn’t they simply use the transporter to beam the fat away?

[_dobbo_]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Gadgetmac said:

Nah. You'd take one pill at the first sign of being overweight and hey presto.

Couldn’t they simply use the transporter to beam the fat away?

I love that we've had more than one scientific or medical solution to stop you being fat, but apparently no technology would exist to stop the unhealthy side effects of being fat.