Marvel's Black Panther
Discussion
Fastchas said:
Also, couldn't they cast an American to play an American CIA agent? They cast Martin Freeman acting with an american accent - really? 
The fact that it is MF irritates me, but US films filling with UK actors when the majority of filming is done in the UK is a good thing. I love Toby Jones as Dr ZOla.Mushroom12 said:
Moonhawk said:
voyds9 said:
PS successful films with strong black or female leads
Shaft
Blade
Hancock
Equaliser
Django
Alien franchise
Tomb Raider
Kill Bill
Terminator
Juno
Erin Brockvitch
Some other well known or successful movies/franchises.Shaft
Blade
Hancock
Equaliser
Django
Alien franchise
Tomb Raider
Kill Bill
Terminator
Juno
Erin Brockvitch
Bad boys
Rush hour
Beverly hills cop
Hunger games
Twilight
Wonder woman
Independence day
Maleficent
Gravity
Many disney movies (like Frozen, Moana, Tangled etc)
Mama mia
The New King Kong
Burning Sands
The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
The Dark tower
The Hitman's Bodyguard
Independence Day
Kidnap
Ride Along
Central Intelligence
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_supe...
But mediocre films have to do something to generate the hype I suppose.
Edited by dudleybloke on Wednesday 21st February 12:05
Mushroom12 said:
Disney for example blacklisted the LA times from advanced screenings because of a piece on Disneyworld as recent as 2017 and leveraged the management into taking action.
And that became public and messy very quickly. If critics really are being pressured I'd hope at least a small percentage of them would go public and take a stand, with the internet as it is that would escalate very quickly. Of the few critics I'll seek out I don't believe for a second that they are under any pressure whatsoever. Kevin Smith is a guy often slated for being on the Disney payroll but I can't think of a seemingly more open and honest guy. He's actually been told that he won't get a Disney/Marvel TV gig whilst he's getting regular TV work with DC, so really has nothing to lose.
Eurogamer took a stand against gaming industry tactics and will often review after release now if it otherwise means playing incomplete builds or being jetted off to controlled events somewhere exotic. If anything that seems to have strengthened their position in a very crowded market.
ukaskew said:
Mushroom12 said:
Disney for example blacklisted the LA times from advanced screenings because of a piece on Disneyworld as recent as 2017 and leveraged the management into taking action.
And that became public and messy very quickly. If critics really are being pressured I'd hope at least a small percentage of them would go public and take a stand, with the internet as it is that would escalate very quickly. Of the few critics I'll seek out I don't believe for a second that they are under any pressure whatsoever. Kevin Smith is a guy often slated for being on the Disney payroll but I can't think of a seemingly more open and honest guy. He's actually been told that he won't get a Disney/Marvel TV gig whilst he's getting regular TV work with DC, so really has nothing to lose.
Eurogamer took a stand against gaming industry tactics and will often review after release now if it otherwise means playing incomplete builds or being jetted off to controlled events somewhere exotic. If anything that seems to have strengthened their position in a very crowded market.
Just had a look at this article from 2015.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others)
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others)
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 21st February 18:36
Moonhawk said:
Just had a look at this article from 2015.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
Shock! Horror! https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 21st February 18:28
just watched Black Panther... it is a cracking movie - unlike most comic adaps there is no "danger to the world" and city levelling fights (and it's all the better for it!). Some of the SFX are a little shonky but overall I loved it!
As an aside, being (mainly) white it is interesting to see an action/super hero movie where the big names are predominantly black (and this does not detract from the film one iota, quite the opposite in-fact).
As an aside, being (mainly) white it is interesting to see an action/super hero movie where the big names are predominantly black (and this does not detract from the film one iota, quite the opposite in-fact).
Just back from this thought it was quite good, not great, but a good standalone.
Disliked- CGI and action scenes in general seemed seen-it-before cgi slugfests or camera-changes-angle-every-strike types.
Felt a bit Lion-Kingy at the start.
Bad guy had great potential and was initially a good foil to BP but felt his character just sort of flubbed out at the end, no righteous indignation or anything, - like the depth of his character evaporated. Baddie in Iron Man 2 held it together much better. Likewise the tribal leader who attacks him at the end- then changes his mind.
In fact the ending in general was unworthy of the rest of the movie.
Liked- some good humour.
Actually felt like a very black movie through and through, not a white film with some token black guys dropped in. Lots of jokes where I noticed only black people laughing.
Thought it stayed on the right side of ribbing about colonialism, T-A slave trade, etc without turning into some white guilt SJW eyeroll fest.
Especially liked the intentional irony of the white guy being called "coloniser" when he's in a country that makes his own look like a joke. His discomfort was actually really well used.
For a standalone movie, it introduced the country far better than Asgard has been explored in three films IMO. The culture(s) and internal rivalries were much more interesting than the traditional Good King/Bad Pretender setup.
Could have been better, but pretty solid and worth a watch unless you're totally sick of superhero movies.
Disliked- CGI and action scenes in general seemed seen-it-before cgi slugfests or camera-changes-angle-every-strike types.
Felt a bit Lion-Kingy at the start.
Bad guy had great potential and was initially a good foil to BP but felt his character just sort of flubbed out at the end, no righteous indignation or anything, - like the depth of his character evaporated. Baddie in Iron Man 2 held it together much better. Likewise the tribal leader who attacks him at the end- then changes his mind.
In fact the ending in general was unworthy of the rest of the movie.
Liked- some good humour.
Actually felt like a very black movie through and through, not a white film with some token black guys dropped in. Lots of jokes where I noticed only black people laughing.
Thought it stayed on the right side of ribbing about colonialism, T-A slave trade, etc without turning into some white guilt SJW eyeroll fest.
Especially liked the intentional irony of the white guy being called "coloniser" when he's in a country that makes his own look like a joke. His discomfort was actually really well used.
For a standalone movie, it introduced the country far better than Asgard has been explored in three films IMO. The culture(s) and internal rivalries were much more interesting than the traditional Good King/Bad Pretender setup.
Could have been better, but pretty solid and worth a watch unless you're totally sick of superhero movies.
Edited by glazbagun on Thursday 22 February 00:16
ash73 said:
Given all the pro-equality coverage this is getting the character name Black Panther seems a bit, well... antiquated somehow.
Almost as it originated from the 1960s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comic...
I saw it last week, and saw it again lastnight with my dad. From the trailer my dad originally dismissed it as a CGI superhero film, then after a fairly positive review he saw (possibly Kermode) saying you can follow it easily and you know who is good or bad, he got interested. Thumbs up all round leaving the cinema, the only immediate negative was the 3D and CGI being a bit shonky in a few places, especially the fast moving fights.
I liked it more second time around too, one of the top Marvel films for me.
Moonhawk said:
Just had a look at this article from 2015.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others)
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
In the Last Jedi debacle I watched this vid.https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/30000-hollywoo...
It states:
"The findings showed that for nearly a decade, filmmakers have made virtually no progress in portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
"Of the top 100 films of 2014, nearly three-quarters of all characters were white, the study showed."
The article then went on to list the number of Hollywood actors by race:
White = 73.1%
Black = 12.5%
Asian = 5.3%
Other = 4.2%
Hispanic = 4.98%
Now look at the demographic makeup of the USA from wiki (interestingly they list Hispanic in a separate section and I don't really understand the figures - so I have left them out - but for the others)
White = 73.6%
Black = 12.6%
Asian = 5.1%
Other = 4.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Un...
Hollywood would seem to be to be almost exactly as diverse as you would expect it to be, considering the racial demographics of the talent pool.
The Last Jedi | Why Fans and Critics are Split
8 min vid by a current film-maker and a student of the LA film school, it's a good watchhttps://youtu.be/f_FYGA-l8b8
he hits upon the demographic thing, and how at every stage, demographics are looked at, film-makers wanna make money after all
ajprice said:
Almost as it originated from the 1960s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comic...
I liked it more second time around too, one of the top Marvel films for me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comics)#Namehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comic...
I liked it more second time around too, one of the top Marvel films for me.
Yeah, there's some debate as to how much it influenced the movement. Considering his name, his first cossy was a bit gauche.
or two Fastchas said:
I thought it was borderline racist. The first white guys we saw were dumb security guards in the museum, spoken to like fools by an arrogant black man and easily overpowered.Then there was the 'white boy' comment.
Also, couldn't they cast an American to play an American CIA agent? They cast Martin Freeman acting with an american accent - really?
Along with the "white guy" dieing first must have got to you in this film too , literally every Hollywood stereotype did a reversal in this film which i found was ironic.Also, couldn't they cast an American to play an American CIA agent? They cast Martin Freeman acting with an american accent - really?
The film itself was a a lot better than i thought it would be.No drags in the middle like the last thor film.
Saw it last night. It was ok.
I did find the snide remarks about 'colonials' and 'white boy' a little jarring though.
My take on it is that for all the Wacandan's technology, cutting themselves off from the world has actually resulted in them retaining backwards or regressive (bordering on racist) attitudes.
It was also quite telling that for all the decrying of colonialism - the main protagonist actually wanted to instigate a colonial regime. As the saying goes - absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
I did find the snide remarks about 'colonials' and 'white boy' a little jarring though.
My take on it is that for all the Wacandan's technology, cutting themselves off from the world has actually resulted in them retaining backwards or regressive (bordering on racist) attitudes.
It was also quite telling that for all the decrying of colonialism - the main protagonist actually wanted to instigate a colonial regime. As the saying goes - absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 5th March 08:42
Moonhawk said:
Saw it last night. It was ok.
I did find the snide remarks about 'colonials' and 'white boy' a little jarring though.
My take on it is that for all the Wacandan's technology, cutting themselves off from the world has actually resulted in them retaining backwards or regressive (bordering on racist) attitudes.
It was also quite telling that for all the decrying of colonialism - the main protagonist actually wanted to instigate a colonial regime. As the saying goes - absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
Funnily enough, that’s a saying I learned from reading Marvel comics. I did find the snide remarks about 'colonials' and 'white boy' a little jarring though.
My take on it is that for all the Wacandan's technology, cutting themselves off from the world has actually resulted in them retaining backwards or regressive (bordering on racist) attitudes.
It was also quite telling that for all the decrying of colonialism - the main protagonist actually wanted to instigate a colonial regime. As the saying goes - absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
I think the film was aware of the corrupting influence of power, the evils of isolationism, and of colonialism when it puts the interests of one group ahead of others. Hence the advice of his father that it’s hard for a good man to be king.
In the end he rejects what his father stood for, and in the final scene he offers to share Wakanda’s knowledge/technology with the world, not to impose it.
(By the way, I thought the ‘coloniser’ insult was quite funny. I intend to use it frequently.)
5th weekend at #1 in the US, only 3 films have done that in the last 20 years. It's a few days away from passing The Avengers as the highest grossing superhero movie of all time.
Regardless of what you think of the movie that's pretty darn impressive for a debut 'single' superhero movie in the MCU.
Regardless of what you think of the movie that's pretty darn impressive for a debut 'single' superhero movie in the MCU.
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