Marvel's Black Panther

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Discussion

Halb

53,012 posts

184 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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repeat viewings definitely give a leader picture. After three attempts, THor2 wasn't abysmal.
Avengers 2 was better than I thought, Captain America 1 was much better than I originally thought. Thor1 was more boring, Iron-Man2 was much better.

grumbledoak

31,563 posts

234 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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JagLover said:
I don't trust "professional critics" anymore and only really put my faith in people like the RLM guys.
There is nothing now but hype pre every single movie release, in the hope of getting a big weekend before the truth comes out. Identity politics and shaming are just new advertising angles. Rather depressingly it's not much better here on PH where allegedly real people are giving their honest opinions.

Black Panther was "meh" with lip stretchers.

irocfan

40,636 posts

191 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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JagLover said:
Blade has been mentioned on this thread.

Parallels between the two movies, both black super heroes in a genre dominated by white superheroes.
Who here, who has seen both, would argue that Black Panther was better than the first Blade movie?

Blade for me had much richer world building and more compelling action scenes. To my knowledge Blade isn't being taught in schools whistle
got to be honest it'd be interesting to see Blade with the same SFX as BP - and I do agree that it was a real good film

SpeedBash

Original Poster:

2,329 posts

188 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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irocfan said:
JagLover said:
Blade has been mentioned on this thread.

Parallels between the two movies, both black super heroes in a genre dominated by white superheroes.
Who here, who has seen both, would argue that Black Panther was better than the first Blade movie?

Blade for me had much richer world building and more compelling action scenes. To my knowledge Blade isn't being taught in schools whistle
got to be honest it'd be interesting to see Blade with the same SFX as BP - and I do agree that it was a real good film
Has this been posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz9w1x8P-OA

Jonesy23

4,650 posts

137 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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grumbledoak said:
Black Panther was "meh" with lip stretchers.
It was full of that sort of little stereotype view of what Africa is like, culled from the pages of National Geographic.

Maybe people got so swept up in the utopian bits they didn't notice how much of it was an offensively bad caricature.

Halb

53,012 posts

184 months

Thursday 21st June 2018
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Blade is a good film, it goes downhill as the series goes on, but they are still watchable.

Spawn was pretty boring as I recall. But that's two big money superhero films back in a time when there was sod all hero films.
But then, hollywood has no memory. biggrin

gregs656

10,928 posts

182 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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JagLover said:
Blade has been mentioned on this thread.

Parallels between the two movies, both black super heroes in a genre dominated by white superheroes.
Who here, who has seen both, would argue that Black Panther was better than the first Blade movie?

Blade for me had much richer world building and more compelling action scenes. To my knowledge Blade isn't being taught in schools whistle
That’s the thing with social and cultural phenomenons though isn’t it? It’s not just about what the best example of something is - it’s about timing and awareness too.

As a cultural phenomenon Black Panther did something Blade didn’t, Wonder Woman did something Alien didn’t. That’s not a criticism of those movies as movies, nor does it diminish their value.

I would not be surprised it interest in Blade and Alien has gone up off the back of Black Panther and Wonder Woman as these comparisons are drawn infront of a generation who were perhaps unaware of those films until now.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Watched it recently.

No comment on the genuinity of the culture etc but it was a far more enjoyable movie than I expected and flowed much better than the trailers promised.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

220 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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gregs656 said:
As a cultural phenomenon Black Panther did something Blade didn’t..........
Other than just happen to come out at a time when SJWism is seemingly at an all time high, and was marketed to take full advantage of that.......what else did it actually do?

There have been movies with black leads, movies with primarily black casts and black superheroes going back years. Black Panther was hardly breaking new ground in any of these regards.

It was a decent movie - but to claim it represented some sort of social paradigm shift just because Hollywood blew their collective load is rather overstretching it somewhat. Lest we forget, we saw similar levels of gushing over Ghostbusters 2016......and what that represented for women.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Bad comedy and a terrible plot?

zygalski

7,759 posts

146 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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There's very little for us white middle aged blokes to relate to these days. I think we need to come up with something to redress the balance & fight the oppression.
Gammonforce: Stormfront Rising would be a decent working title.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

220 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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zygalski said:
There's very little for us white middle aged blokes to relate to these days. I think we need to come up with something to redress the balance & fight the oppression.
I don't think I have seen anyone criticise Black Panther because they can't relate to a movie with a predominantly black cast.....

I went to see it at the cinema, and quite enjoyed it. I bought it on blu-ray last week and enjoyed it on second viewing. It's a decent movie and a worthy addition to the MCU.

What I don't agree with is that it represents some sort of social paradigm shift.

Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 22 June 05:51

JagLover

42,521 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Halb said:
repeat viewings definitely give a leader picture. After three attempts, THor2 wasn't abysmal.
Avengers 2 was better than I thought, Captain America 1 was much better than I originally thought. Thor1 was more boring, Iron-Man2 was much better.
You watched Thor 2 three times? eek

I am not really a massive Marvel fan as all their movies are rather predictable and formulaic and filled with inconsequential action with an invulnerable protagonist.

The better ones are still entertaining though and when they break the mold a bit, like with winter soldier or Ragnarok they can be very good.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

220 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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JagLover said:
You watched Thor 2 three times? eek
I have seen it a handful of times as we do a run through of the entire MCU in order every couple of years.

It's probably the weakest movie of the MCU - but not unwatchable. Has some funny moments.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

101 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Moonhawk said:
JagLover said:
You watched Thor 2 three times? eek
I have seen it a handful of times as we do a run through of the entire MCU in order every couple of years.

It's probably the weakest movie of the MCU - but not unwatchable. Has some funny moments.
Plus it has Kat Dennings in.

The wife and I watched Black Panther over the weekend as we missed it at the cinema. Very much enjoyed it, yes it was very much the same as the other origins movies of characters, but that's to be expected in the MCU now.

Halb

53,012 posts

184 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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JagLover said:
You watched Thor 2 three times? eek

I am not really a massive Marvel fan as all their movies are rather predictable and formulaic and filled with inconsequential action with an invulnerable protagonist.
Three attempts, three attempts! I gave up roughly at the 10-15 minute mark the first two. I forced myself to watch the third time it was on telly, as it's the only one I hadn't seen (excepting BP). It does get marginally better as it goes on, it is predictable. How ever I disagree that all the mcu movies are predictable, some follow the same path, others are fairly different.

JagLover

42,521 posts

236 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Halb said:
JagLover said:
You watched Thor 2 three times? eek

I am not really a massive Marvel fan as all their movies are rather predictable and formulaic and filled with inconsequential action with an invulnerable protagonist.
Three attempts, three attempts! I gave up roughly at the 10-15 minute mark the first two. I forced myself to watch the third time it was on telly, as it's the only one I hadn't seen (excepting BP). It does get marginally better as it goes on, it is predictable. How ever I disagree that all the mcu movies are predictable, some follow the same path, others are fairly different.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t usually dislike MCU movies in fact I would say they are the best of the modern “franchise movies”, better than Pirates, Transformers, Fast & Furious, DC and (now) Star Wars. But that isn’t saying much as most of those franchises are very poor.

Most MCU movies are OK, some are very good, are there any that are great?. It is like the McDonalds of film making. OK basic plot, decent acting, reasonable effects and action, a pleasant way to spend two hours.

Which really brings us back to Black Panther. There is nothing particularly wrong with it and I can think of at least five MCU movies which were worse, but from the critics reviews you would be expecting a new Terminator 2 or Matrix and it just isn’t in the same league as great action movies of the past.

They have the money to spend so the basic problem is with the writing. I can think of a number of ways the script could have been improved with little effort, while keeping the same central conflict.

Halb

53,012 posts

184 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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JagLover said:
Don’t get me wrong I don’t usually dislike MCU movies in fact I would say they are the best of the modern “franchise movies”, better than Pirates, Transformers, Fast & Furious, DC and (now) Star Wars. But that isn’t saying much as most of those franchises are very poor.
Most MCU movies are OK, some are very good, are there any that are great?. It is like the McDonalds of film making. OK basic plot, decent acting, reasonable effects and action, a pleasant way to spend two hours.
Which really brings us back to Black Panther. There is nothing particularly wrong with it and I can think of at least five MCU movies which were worse, but from the critics reviews you would be expecting a new Terminator 2 or Matrix and it just isn’t in the same league as great action movies of the past.
They have the money to spend so the basic problem is with the writing. I can think of a number of ways the script could have been improved with little effort, while keeping the same central conflict.
Yeah, the MCU can turn out mediocre films, I have a feeling in the early days, they were scared and then they became careful and too focussed on the bigger picture. I get the feeling that they are loosening up a bit, being so damn successful can do that.
For action films, I think the 80's were exceptional, like the 70s for conspiracy dark films.
As for 'great', this is tough. Genuinely, I'm not sure, I'll know in ten years.
This week i watched Ghostbusters, and I actually noticed stuff I've not seen before, certain looks the actors give on somebody else's line..it's so damn good, and I've seen it too many times to count. I still can't believe there's some blert in another thread that says the new one is better.
ANyhoo, I love the GotG films and I'd bet they will still be watchable in 10 years, I also reckon Iron-Man will last, as I watched that recently and it was still brilliant. Yes, WInter SOlider too, Avengers 1 and First Avenger. Quality directors, quality acting. I think all of these are in with a shout at 'greatness.' They are the ones I know I can watch again. That I want to.

SpudLink

5,933 posts

193 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
zygalski said:
There's very little for us white middle aged blokes to relate to these days. I think we need to come up with something to redress the balance & fight the oppression.
Gammonforce: Stormfront Rising would be a decent working title.
Ironman? Dr Strange? I don't think the MCU has oppressed you too much.

Coloniser! (Sorry, couldn’t resist it.) smile

Edited by SpudLink on Friday 22 June 11:52

irocfan

40,636 posts

191 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
zygalski said:
There's very little for us white middle aged blokes to relate to these days. I think we need to come up with something to redress the balance & fight the oppression.
Gammonforce: Stormfront Rising would be a decent working title.
And our resident baizuo has splashed down. May the frothing begin