Avengers 3: Infinity War

[Halb]

JagLover said:

I think we are in agreement though on the broad point that despite all the talk of handing over to the new generation Marvel cannot afford to lose all the old avengers. In reality the question of who to keep and who to replace is probably going to resolve just as much around pay and commercial appeal as around whose story has run its course and who has stories left to tell.

I'm going to be entertained by both the on and off screen adventures of the MCU! It's the marvel multiverse!
I guess it'll come down to ego and love, like it always does.

[dxg]

Just watched this last night. It's clear that the ending can be reversed, esp. when film deals have already been announcing involving lots of those characters...

However, the main point I wanted to make was about Thanos - what a great anti-hero, rather than villan!!! The film did such a good job of making you empathise with him, despite what he was trying to do. You really felt depth and pain in his character. I hope we get to see a lot more of that in the next outing.

[gregs656]

dxg said:

Just watched this last night. It's clear that the ending can be reversed, esp. when film deals have already been announcing involving lots of those characters...

Dr Strange told us there was only one way to beat Thanos and that is what we are seeing being played out.

[Moonhawk]

gregs656 said:

Dr Strange told us there was only one way to beat Thanos and that is what we are seeing being played out.

Yep - Strange viewed 14 million possible outcomes and only one did the Avengers win.

That scenario dictated that Strange trade the time stone for Stark's life.

[MissChief]

Now that Disney have taken over Fox they could easily create one big universe with the FF4, X-Men etc as they are in the comics with crossovers a plenty. In fact they could even do it at the end of AIW2 when Tony dies using the gauntlet to undo the snap and they somehow open the other earth dimension and have the closing credit scene with Professor X or Wolverine or the Fantastic Four coming into view like Tony changed something. Then you have another twenty or so movies with these new Avengers for another ten to fifteen years. Just without yet another Wolverine origin story. The same with Fantastic Four. We don't need another origin story again. I was so pleased they didn't do one for Spiderman Homecoming.

[Moonhawk]

MissChief said:

Now that Disney have taken over Fox they could easily create one big universe with the FF4, X-Men etc as they are in the comics with crossovers a plenty. In fact they could even do it at the end of AIW2 when Tony dies using the gauntlet to undo the snap and they somehow open the other earth dimension and have the closing credit scene with Professor X or Wolverine or the Fantastic Four coming into view like Tony changed something. Then you have another twenty or so movies with these new Avengers for another ten to fifteen years. Just without yet another Wolverine origin story. The same with Fantastic Four. We don't need another origin story again. I was so pleased they didn't do one for Spiderman Homecoming.

I wonder if this would be a good way to introduce/bolt on the x-men into the existing MCU:

In the attempt to undo Thanos's work in IW2, the Avengers inadvertently trigger a side effect that either introduces or awakens the mutant-x gene in humanity.

Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 17th September 17:37

[Halb]

I suppose they could do a credits scene, or something. IW2 was pretty much wrapped up by the deal. Fox could have gone to comcast.

As my fave current film youtuber, Grace says, Feige is a huge fan of the big stories, but he likes to keep it simple. i don't see anything too crazy happening. I do reckon that if the winding up of the gauntlet storyline may dabble in crazy quantum/string/dimension shenanigans, and the reaction to that will determine how/if/when the other lot turn up.

[Moonhawk]

I watched IW again last night and afterwards was wondering just how many people died as a result of Thanos's actions (prompted somewhat by the helicopter crashing in the post credits scene).

Of course we have "half the population" as a direct result of being turned to ash - but what about all the indirect deaths.

Take airliners for example. The pilot has a 50:50 chance of being turned to dust - and so does the co-pilot. That means every airliner in the sky at the time had a 25% chance of both the pilot and copilot being snapped out of existence. That's 1 in 4 airliners left with nobody at the helm.

Then we have all the automobile accidents, surgeons in the middle of an operations etc etc.

So what do we reckon - perhaps another 1 or 2% of the population who survived the cull, but were killed indirectly anyway?

[Kitchski]

Moonhawk said:

I watched IW again last night and afterwards was wondering just how many people died as a result of Thanos's actions (prompted somewhat by the helicopter crashing in the post credits scene).

Of course we have "half the population" as a direct result of being turned to ash - but what about all the indirect deaths.

Take airliners for example. The pilot has a 50:50 chance of being turned to dust - and so does the co-pilot. That means every airliner in the sky at the time had a 25% chance of both the pilot and copilot being snapped out of existence. That's 1 in 4 airliners left with nobody at the helm.

Then we have all the automobile accidents, surgeons in the middle of an operations etc etc.

So what do we reckon - perhaps another 1 or 2% of the population who survived the cull, but were killed indirectly anyway?

It's a film.

[Halb]

Moonhawk said:

I watched IW again last night and afterwards was wondering just how many people died as a result of Thanos's actions (prompted somewhat by the helicopter crashing in the post credits scene).

Of course we have "half the population" as a direct result of being turned to ash - but what about all the indirect deaths.

Take airliners for example. The pilot has a 50:50 chance of being turned to dust - and so does the co-pilot. That means every airliner in the sky at the time had a 25% chance of both the pilot and copilot being snapped out of existence. That's 1 in 4 airliners left with nobody at the helm.

Then we have all the automobile accidents, surgeons in the middle of an operations etc etc.

So what do we reckon - perhaps another 1 or 2% of the population who survived the cull, but were killed indirectly anyway?

as a fan of post-apocalypse stories I'm looking forward to that bit, we're 5 years into the story I think in the 2nd half.
will world peace have broken out ( a la Watchmen) and the desire to 'go back' be conflicted?

[Moonhawk]

Kitchski said:

It's a film.

Wow - thanks for your amazing insight..........

[Moonhawk]

Halb said:

as a fan of post-apocalypse stories I'm looking forward to that bit, we're 5 years into the story I think in the 2nd half.
will world peace have broken out ( a la Watchmen) and the desire to 'go back' be conflicted?

Well yes - that is a point.

If what Thanos said is correct about Gamora's world, after the dust has settled, the survivors could well think "hang on a sec - things are actually better".

[glazbagun]

Moonhawk said:

Halb said:

as a fan of post-apocalypse stories I'm looking forward to that bit, we're 5 years into the story I think in the 2nd half.
will world peace have broken out ( a la Watchmen) and the desire to 'go back' be conflicted?

Well yes - that is a point.

If what Thanos said is correct about Gamora's world, after the dust has settled, the survivors could well think "hang on a sec - things are actually better".

It would be good if that was included. Maybe there'll be a reason to need someone back from the dead and there'll be a change of heart. In the real world though, I think it would take more than five years for people to see the benefits of a smaller populatipn whilst still feeling the fallout from who they've lost.

In our case it would be like going back to 1960 population levels overnight, I'm not sure how long it would take us to recover and the instability of who each country lost would further complicate things.

I think we're taking this a bit seriously though.

I do like how only the most weary/bitter guys seem to have survived- Nebula, Stark, Captain, Rocket & Thor have all lost the most in IW so they're really the perfect guys to start the next movie. Though Quill would fit in there too.

[Moonhawk]

glazbagun said:

I think we're taking this a bit seriously though.

Not really - it's a potentially interesting plot point.

[MissChief]

glazbagun said:

Moonhawk said:

Halb said:

as a fan of post-apocalypse stories I'm looking forward to that bit, we're 5 years into the story I think in the 2nd half.
will world peace have broken out ( a la Watchmen) and the desire to 'go back' be conflicted?

Well yes - that is a point.

If what Thanos said is correct about Gamora's world, after the dust has settled, the survivors could well think "hang on a sec - things are actually better".

It would be good if that was included. Maybe there'll be a reason to need someone back from the dead and there'll be a change of heart. In the real world though, I think it would take more than five years for people to see the benefits of a smaller populatipn whilst still feeling the fallout from who they've lost.

In our case it would be like going back to 1960 population levels overnight, I'm not sure how long it would take us to recover and the instability of who each country lost would further complicate things.

I think we're taking this a bit seriously though.

I do like how only the most weary/bitter guys seem to have survived- Nebula, Stark, Captain, Rocket & Thor have all lost the most in IW so they're really the perfect guys to start the next movie. Though Quill would fit in there too.

Except with everyone not starving and having a better quality of life they're more likely to have more children, leading to the same situation in a few generations.

[glazbagun]

MissChief said:

Except with everyone not starving and having a better quality of life they're more likely to have more children, leading to the same situation in a few generations.

And it only took us 40 years to double our population, which was sort of what I was getting at about thinking about it too seriously.

Looking at it in the real world- when/if antibiotics fail and disease starts kicking ass again, we'll probably be in for something that makes Thanos' plan seem unambitious:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#pas...

That's a mighty boom to share Capital/resources with.

[JagLover]

MissChief said:

Except with everyone not starving and having a better quality of life they're more likely to have more children, leading to the same situation in a few generations.

Well exactly in the societies where that would apply. I am a bit perturbed by claims that "Thanos had a point". It was a good move by the film makers to give us a villain who believes himself to be right, that doesnt mean he is right. In contrast the good guys were showing us the value in even a single life as they agonised over whether to sacrifice any one person for the greater good.

To embrace Thanos's plan is not only to believe in a crude Malthusian view of the world it is also to believe in the mentality of someone like a Stalin, in that "one death is a tragedy a million a statistic".

To point out one flaw virtually all advanced nations in the world have a birth rate below the replacement ratio and they were many civilisations in the movies' galaxy even more advanced than us. How many of those had stable populations and lived in harmony with nature?, very many I would suggest.

[JagLover]

Some interesting speculation on Dr Strange's plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woiBsYv1qDs

Sounds plausible to me.

[Moonhawk]

JagLover said:

Well exactly in the societies where that would apply. I am a bit perturbed by claims that "Thanos had a point".

Let's be clear - I don't think anyone is claiming Thanos actually had a point - but rather some survivors of the movie could end up seeing it that way.

JagLover said:

To embrace Thanos's plan is not only to believe in a crude Malthusian view of the world it is also to believe in the mentality of someone like a Stalin, in that "one death is a tragedy a million a statistic".

Which is exactly the point - many people did believe in people with such mentality like Stalin and Hitler. The movie would be foolish to ignore that aspect entirely, especially since they have already explored similar concepts with Hydra.

Edited by Moonhawk on Tuesday 18th September 09:16

[skeeterm5]

I saw this on a plane yesterday and for passing away a couple of hours it was great. There were some real laugh out loud moments, loved the way Thor kept calling Rocket a rabbit

I think Thanos is going to change his mind in the next film and reverse his killing of half the population given too many big characters died - which kills a number of money making opportunities for the franchise.

Edited by skeeterm5 on Wednesday 19th September 12:22