Professor Green, living in poverty.
Discussion
sidicks said:
The politics of envy?
These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
It's fair because one man does not need £millions, it's pure greed. No one 'deserves' to be a multi-millionaire. I don't care how hard you worked or how talented you are, you don't DESERVE it, you've just made some fortunate decisions at the right time. These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
How much more does your life change if you go from having £5 milion in the bank to £10 million in the bank? I bet it would change very little, you just buy more stuff you don't need for a longer period of time.
In the mean time, 'Sandra' scrubs turds off the office toilet pans just so her kid can eat some pop tarts.
desolate said:
TooMany2cvs said:
I don't think that Royal Mail's chief exec's responsibilities extend to making sure every postman's single salary can buy a house and car and look after four kids...
For 1.5 million maybe they should. That's a lot of cheddar.Do you think 300 quid is OK for a full time job for, say, a 30 year old?
cqueen said:
sidicks said:
The politics of envy?
These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
It's fair because one man does not need £millions, it's pure greed. No one 'deserves' to be a multi-millionaire. I don't care how hard you worked or how talented you are, you don't DESERVE it, you've just made some fortunate decisions at the right time. These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
How much more does your life change if you go from having £5 milion in the bank to £10 million in the bank? I bet it would change very little, you just buy more stuff you don't need for a longer period of time.
In the mean time, 'Sandra' scrubs turds off the office toilet pans just so her kid can eat some pop tarts.
do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
cqueen said:
It's fair because one man does not need £millions, it's pure greed. No one 'deserves' to be a multi-millionaire. I don't care how hard you worked or how talented you are, you don't DESERVE it, you've just made some fortunate decisions at the right time.
Subjective nonsense.cqueen said:
How much more does your life change if you go from having £5 milion in the bank to £10 million in the bank? I bet it would change very little, you just buy more stuff you don't need for a longer period of time.
In the mean time, 'Sandra' scrubs turds off the office toilet pans just so her kid can eat some pop tarts.
No one needs to have children. It's a choice.In the mean time, 'Sandra' scrubs turds off the office toilet pans just so her kid can eat some pop tarts.
STe_rsv4 said:
cqueen said:
sidicks said:
The politics of envy?
These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
It's fair because one man does not need £millions, it's pure greed. No one 'deserves' to be a multi-millionaire. I don't care how hard you worked or how talented you are, you don't DESERVE it, you've just made some fortunate decisions at the right time. These people are paying cirac 50% income tax, plus numerous other taxes on top. Why is that 'fair'?
How much more does your life change if you go from having £5 milion in the bank to £10 million in the bank? I bet it would change very little, you just buy more stuff you don't need for a longer period of time.
In the mean time, 'Sandra' scrubs turds off the office toilet pans just so her kid can eat some pop tarts.
do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
STe_rsv4 said:
I can see what you are saying, but at what point is "enough"? When do you stop earning?
do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
Someone earring £200k is typically paying more than £100k in various taxes, to support those on low wages and (most importantly) those that cannot look after themselves. It seems to me that they are paying more than their 'fair' share.do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
sidicks said:
STe_rsv4 said:
I can see what you are saying, but at what point is "enough"? When do you stop earning?
do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
Someone earring £200k is typically paying more than £100k in various taxes, to support those on low wages and (most importantly) those that cannot look after themselves. It seems to me that they rate paying more than their 'fair' share.do you reach the £1 million point and think "right thats it, if I invest wisely and spend thriftlily enough, I should be able to see my days out on this". You dont. There can never be enough for some people. the difference between having £5 million and £10 miliion may mean driving a bentley or a Veyron. 1st world problems I know, but there is always that drive to achieve more.
And yet some still bemoan the fact that people earning these amounts should just give it away or stop earning. How would the country fare if this actually happened I wonder...
sidicks said:
desolate said:
300 quid a week doesn't seem much for doing anything really.
Don't you agree?
As a starting salary for unskilled work, what do you expect?Don't you agree?
desolate said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Starting pay for a postman - £16,300
Average - £18,200
None too shabby for an unskilled job, really.
Not sure I agree that it's "none too shabby"Average - £18,200
None too shabby for an unskilled job, really.
300 quid a week doesn't seem a lot to bring up a family.
Child Tax Credit
Housing Benefit
Income Support
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Working Tax Credit
e30m3Mark said:
It's not a starting salary for a fair number of people though. Here in Cornwall wages are a bit less than elsewhere in the UK. I don't earn much more than that for a 40 hour week. I have to work considerably more than that to have things I want though and I don't drink, smoke or claim anything.
Wages are less, but the cost of living is substantially less. I think it's quite reasonable to have to work to have things that you 'want' rather than 'need'.98elise said:
desolate said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Starting pay for a postman - £16,300
Average - £18,200
None too shabby for an unskilled job, really.
Not sure I agree that it's "none too shabby"Average - £18,200
None too shabby for an unskilled job, really.
300 quid a week doesn't seem a lot to bring up a family.
Child Tax Credit
you earn too much for all of that
98elise said:
Add to that any or the following they qualify for:
Child Tax Credit
Housing Benefit
Income Support
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Working Tax Credit
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to have a full time job and not require benefits to top them upChild Tax Credit
Housing Benefit
Income Support
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Working Tax Credit
Smiler. said:
desolate said:
sidicks said:
As a starting salary for unskilled work, what do you expect?
A quick google suggests the average postman earns 18,200. So on a fag packet that would around 300 quid a week after tax, maybe a touch more, maybe a touch less.For that I would expect them to be really unhappy in their work, strike at inconvenient times and nick loads of stuff.
Who can blame them?
Thats the sense of entitlement in action right there.
Surely, not serious?
I've had 3 separate careers, all staring from the bottom and working up. That involved me deciding I wanted something better so i went out and learnt a new trade. No moaning, stop working, or stealing. I spent the time doing something about it rather than blaming myself for poor choices.
The person sitting opposite me is an IT Network Engineer. Well paid and a skilled job. He started his career as a postman (very apt). I started mine in the Weapons Engineer Royal Navy, yet i now write software for a living.
For all my effort, commitment i get paid well, but someone will always tell me how unfair it is and want more of my cash. If you want my money why not train to do my job. It doesn't require a degree, just the commitment to start from nothing and work your way up. It might take 10 years but that's how life works.
A good mate of mine is a postman. Not sure what he earns but do know that most are on part-time contracts hence the low average pay stated here.
They are currently all voting on a national strike, something to do with pensions. He loves the job and will vote for the strike just for the day off.
They are currently all voting on a national strike, something to do with pensions. He loves the job and will vote for the strike just for the day off.
desolate said:
For 1.5 million maybe they should.
Umm, no. That's not their job...[quote-desolate]That's a lot of cheddar.
http://www.royalmailgroup.com/about-us/management-...
If the shareholders don't think the remuneration committee is doing its job, then that's what the AGM is for. It's happened elsewhere.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/05/c...
I doubt they'd hire somebody of the calibre of Moya Green for significantly less, and they won't stand for incompetence in the post for long. CEOs capable of running a £10bn turnover, £600m profit annual business are in an international recruitment market, and the remuneration is set by that international market.
And before you look all scandalised at £600m profit, that's a raw 6% margin - about £3,700 per employee. Not exactly usurious, is it?
http://www.royalmailgroup.com/royal-mail-plc-full-...
desolate said:
Do you think 300 quid is OK for a full time job for, say, a 30 year old?
What I think isn't relevant, as I'm not currently in the market for an unskilled full-time job, but thanks for asking.I know that the starting salary is more than 10% above the legal minimum wage, and the average is 25% above.
I know that people aren't being forced at gunpoint to work as postmen, so are perfectly free to work for other employers if they think they'll be better rewarded in other jobs.
I know that if staff recruitment and retention dropped off seriously enough to be an issue, then the pay and conditions would almost certainly increase, in order to entice more people.
cqueen said:
No one 'deserves' to be a multi-millionaire. I don't care how hard you worked or how talented you are, you don't DESERVE it, you've just made some fortunate decisions at the right time.
Does that include ex-drug-dealing rappers who are famous for having married somebody famous for being on a telly prog about obnoxiously spoilt rich brats? cqueen said:
How much more does your life change if you go from having £5 milion in the bank to £10 million in the bank? I bet it would change very little, you just buy more stuff you don't need for a longer period of time.
I'm sure it wouldn't in any meaningful way. That's one reason why I chose to get out of the SE ratrace, because I could see that I was surrounded by the kind of git for whom too much would never be enough. I'm far happier for it, thanks. (Not that the choice between £5m or £10m was ever a realistic option for me, I'd like to clarify...)cqueen said:
Amateurish said:
Source: IFS https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9552
That might be what the experts publish, but it's sure as hell not what I see with my own eyes.Pray tell me more about your anecdotal wisdom.
Here's some more of those stupid facts, this time from the ONS:
"Median disposable income for the poorest fifth of households rose by £700 (5.1%) between 2014/15 and 2015/16; in contrast the income of the richest fifth of households fell by £1,000 (1.9%) over the same period.
Overall, cash benefits and direct taxes led to income being shared more equally between households. Original income (before cash benefits and direct taxes) for the richest fifth of households was around 12 times higher than the poorest fifth (£85,000 and £7,000 per year respectively) while disposable income (after cash benefits and direct taxes) for the richest fifth was 5 times higher than the poorest fifth (£62,400 and £12,500 per year respectively).
There has been a gradual decline in income inequality in the last 10 years, with levels similar to those seen in the mid to late 1980s"
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