The Vietnam war BBC4
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
SEATO - South East Asia Treaty Organisation. It is the Pacific Rim version of NATO. Australia and New Zealand felt they had a commitment under their SEATO obligations.
ANZUS was the "security" treaty which bound New Zealand and Australian troops to join in the Vietnam war, and before that Korea.This treaty is still in place but hasn't really been recognised since New Zealand refused entry to nuclear powered US ships in the mid 80's
Big E 118 said:
Eric Mc said:
SEATO - South East Asia Treaty Organisation. It is the Pacific Rim version of NATO. Australia and New Zealand felt they had a commitment under their SEATO obligations.
ANZUS was the "security" treaty which bound New Zealand and Australian troops to join in the Vietnam war, and before that Korea.This treaty is still in place but hasn't really been recognised since New Zealand refused entry to nuclear powered US ships in the mid 80's
Big E 118 said:
Definitely nuclear powered, warships do not have nuclear weapons (or not then) but were still refused as they wouldn't disclose if they were nuclear powered or not. NZ had just gone nuclear free zone.
Warships do not have nuclear weapons...........really, don't think soWarships did not have nuclear weapons then.......really, don't think so.
The USS Buchanan was steam powered. And was refused entry as the US gov refused to state whether nuclear weapons were onboard or not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Buchanan_(DDG-14...
Edited by mikal83 on Monday 6th November 19:52
Big E 118 said:
Definitely nuclear powered, warships do not have nuclear weapons (or not then) but were still refused as they wouldn't disclose if they were nuclear powered or not. NZ had just gone nuclear free zone.
No, it was the other way around. It's easy enough to find out how a ship is powered (i.e. if it's an aircraft carrier or not), less easy to find out if it's carrying nuclear weapons.Halmyre said:
No, it was the other way around. It's easy enough to find out how a ship is powered (i.e. if it's an aircraft carrier or not), less easy to find out if it's carrying nuclear weapons.
Sorry, my reply was rushed and incorrect. You are correct with regards to determining the power source.What I should have said was that the US would not disclose whether the ship had nuclear weapons or not and would also not disclose the power source. The NZ government knew it was nuclear powered so it was banned on the basis that a nuclear powered warship was not allowed to enter the new nuclear free zone. This point is no longer relevant as last year NZ stopped the ban on US warships.
Back on topic, the BBC 4 Vietnam documentary was excellent.
Big E 118 said:
Halmyre said:
No, it was the other way around. It's easy enough to find out how a ship is powered (i.e. if it's an aircraft carrier or not), less easy to find out if it's carrying nuclear weapons.
Sorry, my reply was rushed and incorrect. You are correct with regards to determining the power source.What I should have said was that the US would not disclose whether the ship had nuclear weapons or not and would also not disclose the power source. The NZ government knew it was nuclear powered so it was banned on the basis that a nuclear powered warship was not allowed to enter the new nuclear free zone. This point is no longer relevant as last year NZ stopped the ban on US warships.
Back on topic, the BBC 4 Vietnam documentary was excellent.
mikal83 said:
I still have no idea what the heck you are on about.
Let try this simple answer for you.
Prior to 1969 ie "The Draft" they were all volunteers. Now the vast vast majority were enlisted men. They were based all over the place and quite a lot .....................didn't go to Vietnam at all. OK so far, good. Now after the draft started, there were still a heck of a lot of volunteers joining up and they too DIDNT all go to Vietnam.
OK.........what the % of the men in Vietnam enlisted v draftees that's for you to find.
Now from what you have written, your saying that all the volunteers that joined up AFTER the draft started, DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong??
AND that all those that volunteered AFTER the draft started were Officers and they also DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong.
Do you PERSONALLY know anyone that actually went over there..........I do, quite a few....All were volunteers.
No i dont but as you do, why dont you ask them what happened if you was drafted but then decided to Volunteer after you received your draft papers. And then enlighten us on what would happen, should you know anyone who served after '69.Let try this simple answer for you.
Prior to 1969 ie "The Draft" they were all volunteers. Now the vast vast majority were enlisted men. They were based all over the place and quite a lot .....................didn't go to Vietnam at all. OK so far, good. Now after the draft started, there were still a heck of a lot of volunteers joining up and they too DIDNT all go to Vietnam.
OK.........what the % of the men in Vietnam enlisted v draftees that's for you to find.
Now from what you have written, your saying that all the volunteers that joined up AFTER the draft started, DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong??
AND that all those that volunteered AFTER the draft started were Officers and they also DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong.
Do you PERSONALLY know anyone that actually went over there..........I do, quite a few....All were volunteers.
So as you seem to have trouble understanding what i wrote, here it is in simplified terms as im not a poetic writer;
YOU get served Draft Papers
YOU having been Drafted now decide to enrol/volunteer
YOU now have the possibility of not being sent to Nam
YOU now have the possibility of going to Officer School or doing something else
YOU now have an extension to stay in the USA for abit longer as you could defer the joining date as you volunteered.
Should you have decided not to enrol normally and stayed with the draft, you just had to do the years (?) service and then you was out.
I guess you could talk about pre-draft again
Im guessing i could ask on the Cherries website and ask the Vets there if you like
I had a quick look about at some % and it seems that 25% of the Army in Nam was draft conscripts and they accounted for 30% of the overall KIA. I wasnt able to find a figure saying if you was drafted you was 100% going to Nam though
lemmingjames said:
mikal83 said:
I still have no idea what the heck you are on about.
Let try this simple answer for you.
Prior to 1969 ie "The Draft" they were all volunteers. Now the vast vast majority were enlisted men. They were based all over the place and quite a lot .....................didn't go to Vietnam at all. OK so far, good. Now after the draft started, there were still a heck of a lot of volunteers joining up and they too DIDNT all go to Vietnam.
OK.........what the % of the men in Vietnam enlisted v draftees that's for you to find.
Now from what you have written, your saying that all the volunteers that joined up AFTER the draft started, DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong??
AND that all those that volunteered AFTER the draft started were Officers and they also DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong.
Do you PERSONALLY know anyone that actually went over there..........I do, quite a few....All were volunteers.
No i dont but as you do, why dont you ask them what happened if you was drafted but then decided to Volunteer after you received your draft papers. And then enlighten us on what would happen, should you know anyone who served after '69.Let try this simple answer for you.
Prior to 1969 ie "The Draft" they were all volunteers. Now the vast vast majority were enlisted men. They were based all over the place and quite a lot .....................didn't go to Vietnam at all. OK so far, good. Now after the draft started, there were still a heck of a lot of volunteers joining up and they too DIDNT all go to Vietnam.
OK.........what the % of the men in Vietnam enlisted v draftees that's for you to find.
Now from what you have written, your saying that all the volunteers that joined up AFTER the draft started, DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong??
AND that all those that volunteered AFTER the draft started were Officers and they also DIDNT go to Vietnam. Is that right or wrong.
Do you PERSONALLY know anyone that actually went over there..........I do, quite a few....All were volunteers.
So as you seem to have trouble understanding what i wrote, here it is in simplified terms as im not a poetic writer;
YOU get served Draft Papers
YOU having been Drafted now decide to enrol/volunteer
YOU now have the possibility of not being sent to Nam
YOU now have the possibility of going to Officer School or doing something else
YOU now have an extension to stay in the USA for abit longer as you could defer the joining date as you volunteered.
Should you have decided not to enrol normally and stayed with the draft, you just had to do the years (?) service and then you was out.
I guess you could talk about pre-draft again
Im guessing i could ask on the Cherries website and ask the Vets there if you like
I had a quick look about at some % and it seems that 25% of the Army in Nam was draft conscripts and they accounted for 30% of the overall KIA. I wasnt able to find a figure saying if you was drafted you was 100% going to Nam though
Eric Mc said:
US Navy aircraft were equipped with nuclear weapons for many years. The North American A-5 Vigilante, the North American AJ2 Savage and the Douglas A3 Skywarrior were all designed as nuclear bombers.
Was there a particular year when the US took nuclear weapons off their carriers?
First its a bit of a squeeze putting a Vigilante/Savage/Skywarrior onto the back of a frigate/cruiser and taking off and landing!Was there a particular year when the US took nuclear weapons off their carriers?
Second, have they ever?
mikal83 said:
You have now shown you have no idea what you are writing about.
Well why dont you tell me where im wrong, given what i wrote is in peoples autobiographies, one person is Tom Abraham who wrote The Cage. One of a few Brits who served in the US Army in Nam.Or are you going to draw upon the experiences of the people you know who fought pre-draft? Or going to offer evidence to say that if you did get drafted, it didnt automatically mean Nam?
Heres a reddit link discussing exactly what im talking about;
https://www.reddit.com/r/answers/comments/63ydtb/i...
Edited by lemmingjames on Tuesday 7th November 11:43
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