Solo: A Star Wars Story
Discussion
Estimates are even lower than the low end of expectations.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
They are still skirting round the elephant in the room too.
No mention of the attempted vilification of fans after the mixed response to TLJ as a possible reason for it's apparent failure to meet expectations.
It's funny that the marvel films/MCU don't seem to be suffering from fatigue or a tight release schedule. So far this year we have had Black Panther, IW and Deadpool - all seem to have done great (or are doing great) - and we still have Ant Man and the Wasp to come.
Yet Star Wars - surely the franchise to end all franchises cannot absorb, the impact of two movies being released within 5 months of each other......come on!
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
They are still skirting round the elephant in the room too.
No mention of the attempted vilification of fans after the mixed response to TLJ as a possible reason for it's apparent failure to meet expectations.
It's funny that the marvel films/MCU don't seem to be suffering from fatigue or a tight release schedule. So far this year we have had Black Panther, IW and Deadpool - all seem to have done great (or are doing great) - and we still have Ant Man and the Wasp to come.
Yet Star Wars - surely the franchise to end all franchises cannot absorb, the impact of two movies being released within 5 months of each other......come on!
Edited by Moonhawk on Sunday 27th May 20:56
Saw it this afternoon and I enjoyed it. Better than TLJ and R1. Han is my favourite SW character and the actor did a good job of portraying him. It was interesting to see how closely Disney followed SW cannon in terms of how Han met Chewie and then acquired the Falcon. The scenes with him flying it with his furry sidekick made me smile.
As usual lots of references to the prequels, would have been nice to see Han meet Jabba for the first time though. Don't listen to all the negative reviews, go and see it.
As usual lots of references to the prequels, would have been nice to see Han meet Jabba for the first time though. Don't listen to all the negative reviews, go and see it.
I also saw it this afternoon. It's a good, enjoyable film, but it won't be a classic like the originals. I think what's missing from modern sci-fi films, and the new run of Star Trek films suffer the same, is all action and no suspense.
Take when we saw the probe droid in Empire Strikes Back. It was scary and evil looking. It moved slowly and purposefully, properly menacing. Now we saw a whole bunch of them in Solo and they were instantly forgettable cannon fodder.
Take when we saw the probe droid in Empire Strikes Back. It was scary and evil looking. It moved slowly and purposefully, properly menacing. Now we saw a whole bunch of them in Solo and they were instantly forgettable cannon fodder.
Halb said:
What flaws?
How about the fact that 4 and 5 don’t flow into each other at all, because main plot points like who Darth Vader is, and his relationship to Luke, (or even Darth being a name) weren’t even vague ideas when Star Wars was written?I’m a massive Star Wars fan. I think Lucas imaged a truely incredible universe but it is folly not to recognise the flaws in ALL the movies.
gregs656 said:
How about the fact that 4 and 5 don’t flow into each other at all, because main plot points like who Darth Vader is, and his relationship to Luke, (or even Darth being a name) weren’t even vague ideas when Star Wars was written?
I’m a massive Star Wars fan. I think Lucas imaged a truely incredible universe but it is folly not to recognise the flaws in ALL the movies.
It's also folly to say some things are flaws when they're not. Especially when comparing to the current ones as a sort of defence of them.I’m a massive Star Wars fan. I think Lucas imaged a truely incredible universe but it is folly not to recognise the flaws in ALL the movies.
'Flowing'? STar Wars was a stand alone film, the sequel picks up a short while later.. Originally Darth was a name, it was all the stuff in the 90s that retconned that, and all that sith stuff. Darth originally wasn't meant to be Luke's dad, and that changed as Empire was being shot (this happens in every film) but there is nothing that jarrs (edit or doesn't make sense or is a hole in the plot) in Empire that affects that.
Films with so many so-called 'flaws' don't get chosen by the AFI to be in their top films.
Edited by Halb on Sunday 27th May 22:48
gregs656 said:
How about the fact that 4 and 5 don’t flow into each other at all, because main plot points like who Darth Vader is, and his relationship to Luke, (or even Darth being a name) weren’t even vague ideas when Star Wars was written?
I think that’s pretty forgivable though. Not knowing you are going to make two more movies is a legitimate excuse for some slight continuity issues or contraditions (not that there were many).With TFA and TLJ - it was known well in advance that these movies would form part of a trilogy. The overall story arc and direction should have been well established, yet they feel like they are being written on the fly.
Moonhawk said:
With TFA and TLJ - it was known well in advance that these movies would form part of a trilogy. The overall story arc and direction should have been well established, yet they feel like they are being written on the fly.
What's weird with that is that JJ said he didn't know how TFA would end. Stuff gets changed as stuff gets filmed.Doubt there's a film out there that hasn't had on-the-fly changes. And yet the changes in the modern pre-planned films are so jarring. Some of it doesn't make sense...choices in the writing that is
Moonhawk said:
Worse than Porgs?
.....especially considering they had the luxury of hindsight!
Yes worse than porgs. .....especially considering they had the luxury of hindsight!
Porgs were just some indigenous life like birds etc you'd find on an Island, didn't play any role in the story.
Ewoks totally different fought storm troopers etc had a major part in the story. Which was ridiculous.
RobDickinson said:
Moonhawk said:
Worse than Porgs?
.....especially considering they had the luxury of hindsight!
Yes worse than porgs. .....especially considering they had the luxury of hindsight!
Porgs were just some indigenous life like birds etc you'd find on an Island, didn't play any role in the story.
Ewoks totally different fought storm troopers etc had a major part in the story. Which was ridiculous.
Up until ewoks there wasnt anything fluffy and cute in the SW universe aimed directly at selling kids toys. It was all pretty grown up.
Ewoks were specifically aimed at kids and their place in the story is utterly unbelievable. bows and arrows against at walkers and armoured stormtroopers with blasters? yeah nah.
Anyhow, the plot of ROTJ was garbage too. shame after the excellent ESB.
1/3rd saving Han was an ok sub plot, then 2/3rds destroying yet another death star. But is just the straight up assault, nothing really about finding out about it or the lead up or anything, its like its missing 2 or 3 acts. Theres no subtly or depth.
Ewoks were specifically aimed at kids and their place in the story is utterly unbelievable. bows and arrows against at walkers and armoured stormtroopers with blasters? yeah nah.
Anyhow, the plot of ROTJ was garbage too. shame after the excellent ESB.
1/3rd saving Han was an ok sub plot, then 2/3rds destroying yet another death star. But is just the straight up assault, nothing really about finding out about it or the lead up or anything, its like its missing 2 or 3 acts. Theres no subtly or depth.
Yeah, the third one does have flaws, as mentioned in it's structure, plus the nature of the ewoks. It's easy to spot a creative downturn there, and it's part of why Kurtz left. Plus the swing to toy sales and the like. Jedi clearly does not have tight a structure as the previous two.
Imagine if it had been Chewies world, like originally (I think) mooted.
edit
I looked at the numbers after Moonhawk said it was disappointing (the last one I read they expected biggest MD weekend evah), and they are down on expectations from only two days ago, but I also noticed there was no production budget listed, nor on the other website, the-numbers. So I looked, it seems at best, people know that it's over $250, which makes it number one for SW films.
https://screenrant.com/solo-movie-budget-cost-star...
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
the production budget plus the PR budget plus the current takings..is this a Ghostbusters 2016 issue, where it might not even look like it will recoup costs?
Imagine if it had been Chewies world, like originally (I think) mooted.
edit
I looked at the numbers after Moonhawk said it was disappointing (the last one I read they expected biggest MD weekend evah), and they are down on expectations from only two days ago, but I also noticed there was no production budget listed, nor on the other website, the-numbers. So I looked, it seems at best, people know that it's over $250, which makes it number one for SW films.
https://screenrant.com/solo-movie-budget-cost-star...
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
the production budget plus the PR budget plus the current takings..is this a Ghostbusters 2016 issue, where it might not even look like it will recoup costs?
Edited by Halb on Monday 28th May 00:43
Moonhawk said:
Estimates are even lower than the low end of expectations.
They are still skirting round the elephant in the room too.
No mention of the attempted vilification of fans after the mixed response to TLJ as a possible reason for it's apparent failure to meet expectations.
Because the available evidence doesn't really back that up, for analysts that's kinda crucial. TLJ scored well enough with critics and by pretty much every available audience metric. Mixed yes, but still with a heavily positive slant. A very vocal minority hammered the film and made a solid attempt at drowning out the positivity, but without going wildly OT as lord knows we don't need another thread on it, I really can't see how that accounts for such an overwhelmingly poor global performance for Solo.They are still skirting round the elephant in the room too.
No mention of the attempted vilification of fans after the mixed response to TLJ as a possible reason for it's apparent failure to meet expectations.
I know plenty (myself included) who thoroughly enjoyed TLJ but still had almost no enthusiasm for Solo. The well publicised production troubles (which led to a massively reduced marketing campaign), the recasting of such an iconic character (I'm sure it was no accident that Donald Glover was more prominent in the lead up to release). Unlike Rogue One it was a struggle to see why it existed in the first place.
This summer always had the potential for something big to fail. 4 major releases so tightly packed is uncharted territory and was always going to amplify whichever one(s) just didn't connect. Solo, it seems, is that movie.
Honestly without going through it again TLJ STUNK everyone I know who went to see it though the same. everyone. So much so that I now take every critic rating wih a huge pinch of salt because they must have seen a different film.
When you take that set of people and combine with those like yourself that actually liked it but still have no interest in solo, combine that with the time of release and the rocky road the film had its not surprising the takings are garbage.
Disney reaping what they have sowed.
When you take that set of people and combine with those like yourself that actually liked it but still have no interest in solo, combine that with the time of release and the rocky road the film had its not surprising the takings are garbage.
Disney reaping what they have sowed.
Moonhawk said:
Coolbanana said:
Saved? 
The current Trilogy is great! Easily as captivating as the Originals for me in terms of entertainment value (not ground-breaking originality) and I saw the 1st one back in 1977 as a very young kid and have watched all of them countless times! If we want to pick flaws out of sheer pettiness, the Originals were full of them. Yet they were great anyway. The same is true for the current Trilogy - in my opinion and in the opinion of enough to warrant Disney to keep up the good work!
I'm happy that you enjoy them, and I agree the originals were far from perfect - but these new movies have issues that run far deeper than "sheer pettiness" on behalf of fans.The current Trilogy is great! Easily as captivating as the Originals for me in terms of entertainment value (not ground-breaking originality) and I saw the 1st one back in 1977 as a very young kid and have watched all of them countless times! If we want to pick flaws out of sheer pettiness, the Originals were full of them. Yet they were great anyway. The same is true for the current Trilogy - in my opinion and in the opinion of enough to warrant Disney to keep up the good work!
Each to their own though huh - I like Battleship - so i'm not exactly a high art film critic.
What is not true to say is that it is only "hard core fans" that have a problem. In China, where they have no tradition of Star Wars, they described TLJ as an insult to their intelligence.
Halb said:
Yeah, the third one does have flaws, as mentioned in it's structure, plus the nature of the ewoks. It's easy to spot a creative downturn there, and it's part of why Kurtz left. Plus the swing to toy sales and the like. Jedi clearly does not have tight a structure as the previous two.
Imagine if it had been Chewies world, like originally (I think) mooted.
edit
I looked at the numbers after Moonhawk said it was disappointing (the last one I read they expected biggest MD weekend evah), and they are down on expectations from only two days ago, but I also noticed there was no production budget listed, nor on the other website, the-numbers. So I looked, it seems at best, people know that it's over $250, which makes it number one for SW films.
https://screenrant.com/solo-movie-budget-cost-star...
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
the production budget plus the PR budget plus the current takings..is this a Ghostbusters 2016 issue, where it might not even look like it will recoup costs?
Looking like it might make a loss from the theatrical release. DVD/Blu Ray sales and then sale of TV rights etc after that though of course, plus merchandising.Imagine if it had been Chewies world, like originally (I think) mooted.
edit
I looked at the numbers after Moonhawk said it was disappointing (the last one I read they expected biggest MD weekend evah), and they are down on expectations from only two days ago, but I also noticed there was no production budget listed, nor on the other website, the-numbers. So I looked, it seems at best, people know that it's over $250, which makes it number one for SW films.
https://screenrant.com/solo-movie-budget-cost-star...
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4402&p=....
the production budget plus the PR budget plus the current takings..is this a Ghostbusters 2016 issue, where it might not even look like it will recoup costs?
Edited by Halb on Monday 28th May 00:43
As Chris said though the bigger issue is that they have paid $4bn for this franchise and each of these movies should be making a few hundred million $ at the very least in order to repay that investment.
The world has changed since the first Star Wars trilogy. Look at some of the other franchises like Transformers or Pirates. They made one good movie in each, IMO, then each sequel was automatically a $1bn movie due to brand recognition. Star Wars is far bigger than those Franchises and yet the movies are already stuttering and losing fans
My problem with this film was that, to me, we already have a Han Solo origin story; it's called A New Hope.
If they had called the film Kessel Run, kept Han as the lead but dialled down the amount of time spent on his origin (they could have had him win the Falcon from Lando very early on, then go about assembling a crew) it would have been much more interesting.
If they had called the film Kessel Run, kept Han as the lead but dialled down the amount of time spent on his origin (they could have had him win the Falcon from Lando very early on, then go about assembling a crew) it would have been much more interesting.
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