Solo: A Star Wars Story
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
Honestly without going through it again TLJ STUNK everyone I know who went to see it though the same. everyone. So much so that I now take every critic rating wih a huge pinch of salt because they must have seen a different film.
When you take that set of people and combine with those like yourself that actually liked it but still have no interest in solo, combine that with the time of release and the rocky road the film had its not surprising the takings are garbage.
Disney reaping what they have sowed.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-box-office-domestic-worldwide/When you take that set of people and combine with those like yourself that actually liked it but still have no interest in solo, combine that with the time of release and the rocky road the film had its not surprising the takings are garbage.
Disney reaping what they have sowed.
Yep, Disney must be livid that they made a huge profit from TLJ!
I've not met anyone in person who didn't enjoy TLJ or any of the episodes. It, like any Star War's movie, may not have been their favourite film ever but was good for what it is.
The 'serious' fans who dissect every detail are small in number compared to those of us who don't take movies like this too seriously. Star Wars, the Marvel and DC movies, Pirates etc - all light-hearted entertainment, mere escapism. Always have been.
These are not examples of a Thespians skill or a Script Writers gift. They are special-effects vehicles with average-acting and story-lines but if you are 'into' sci-fi or fantasy, offer a thrilling 2 hours. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The entire franchise is flawed if we all decide to nit-pick or feel a need to drive the story towards a preferred angle but the flaws are fine for this type of movie. They aren't meant to be thought-provoking or intelligent. They are just a bit of fun.
Clearly though, for some of you, you take the story-line very seriously as if they were meant to be works of art and are left disappointed when something doesn't pan out the way you want it to. That's sad for you, I agree but was always a major risk with what are just 'fun' movies.
See them as just a bit of fun and they are, indeed, fun. As such, Disney is so far doing ok and will continue to make a profit overall with the Franchise.
ukaskew said:
Because the available evidence doesn't really back that up, for analysts that's kinda crucial. TLJ scored well enough with critics and by pretty much every available audience metric. Mixed yes, but still with a heavily positive slant. A very vocal minority hammered the film and made a solid attempt at drowning out the positivity, but without going wildly OT as lord knows we don't need another thread on it, I really can't see how that accounts for such an overwhelmingly poor global performance for Solo.
Han has enough appeal to draw audiences in, and the reviews are ok, but there will be people who will hold out seeing this due to the attitude of Disney over TLJ. These fans may eventually watch and enjoy it after they pick up a bargain basement blu-ray or digital download - but it's at the box office where fans/customers have the opportunity to make their voices heard.
Of course we aren't really going to know what effect TLJ had until EP9, but I suspect it has played a part in Solo's poor performance.
Coolbanana said:
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-box-o...
Yep, Disney must be livid that they made a huge profit from TLJ!
Where did they get those figures?Yep, Disney must be livid that they made a huge profit from TLJ!
"$936.6 million domestic haul and more than $2 billion worldwide. "
According to Box Office Mojo - TLJ actually took $620 million domestically and $1.33 billion worldwide.
With a production budget of $215 million and what is likely to be a similarly sized marketing budget, that haul means it will have barely broken even at the box office if the 2.5-3x budget rule of thumb holds.
I don't doubt it made money - especially when the DVD/online sales and merchandising were factored in - but the key question, is it a high enough return on investment on the franchise - especially if these movies have to absorb a poorer performing film (or even a flop) every few years.
I also think TLJ traded a lot on the good will generated by TFA and Rogue 1. I enjoyed both movies especially the latter, and both of them polled high with audiences. I gave TLJ a punt primarily based on how things seemed to be going with the franchise. I expected TLJ to be a lot better and had expected Disney to have ironed out the teething troubles. When the critic's reviews came in, that did seem to be the case - but oh, was I wrong.
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 28th May 08:39
Halb said:
It's also folly to say some things are flaws when they're not. Especially when comparing to the current ones as a sort of defence of them.
'Flowing'? STar Wars was a stand alone film, the sequel picks up a short while later.. Originally Darth was a name, it was all the stuff in the 90s that retconned that, and all that sith stuff. Darth originally wasn't meant to be Luke's dad, and that changed as Empire was being shot (this happens in every film) but there is nothing that jarrs (edit or doesn't make sense or is a hole in the plot) in Empire that affects that.
Films with so many so-called 'flaws' don't get chosen by the AFI to be in their top films.
Darth (name) Vader was never meant to be Luke’s father. Both those things changed. As a result if you sit down and watch the films as they stand it is jarring. You might not see it as a flaw but I do. 'Flowing'? STar Wars was a stand alone film, the sequel picks up a short while later.. Originally Darth was a name, it was all the stuff in the 90s that retconned that, and all that sith stuff. Darth originally wasn't meant to be Luke's dad, and that changed as Empire was being shot (this happens in every film) but there is nothing that jarrs (edit or doesn't make sense or is a hole in the plot) in Empire that affects that.
Films with so many so-called 'flaws' don't get chosen by the AFI to be in their top films.
Edited by Halb on Sunday 27th May 22:48
It actually changed as part of a script revision before the film was being shot AFAIK.
You can only take things as they are. It is ‘the original trilogy’ when it watches like the original 1 + 2 for me.
There are plenty of mistakes:
- The rebels can’t escape hoth because there is an emperial blockade. Luke flys off Hoth and doesn’t pass a single ship.
- Luke asks Han to pass him his lightsaber in ROTJ having demonstrated the ability to force grab it in ESB.
- Explain to me Luke’s plan to rescue Han from Jabba? And why EVERYONE needed to be there?
- We never get an explanation of the time difference between Luke on dagobah and everyone else on cloud city. He leaves Dagobah after an apparently descent length of time, the cloud city story takes place over a much shorter period of time. That’s cloud city where Bobba Fett followed Han to, but turned up before he did...
- ‘The are no signs of life’ on the escape pod with R2 on it so they decide to ignore it. Odd choice in a universe with droids.
gregs656 said:
Darth (name) Vader was never meant to be Luke’s father. Both those things changed. As a result if you sit down and watch the films as they stand it is jarring. You might not see it as a flaw but I do.
How does it affect the story though? Luke only finds out that Vader is his father towards the end of ESB. Nothing up to that point had ruled out Vader being Luke's father as a possibility.We do know that even in Star Wars, Luke's father wasn't thought very highly of by the Lars and that Luke has ("too much of his father in him"). Whilst it may not have been the intention at this stage to introduce Vader as his father - these statements certainly don't contradict the later developments.
gregs656 said:
There are plenty of mistakes:
- The rebels can’t escape hoth because there is an emperial blockade. Luke flys off Hoth and doesn’t pass a single ship.
One could argue that they were too busy with the fleet of transports and the Millennium Falcon to worry about a single fighter. Also - the blockade had been partially disabled by the ion canon - so it's possible Luke simply slipped by a disabled star destroyer that was sitting just off camera (special effects were expensive back in the day)- The rebels can’t escape hoth because there is an emperial blockade. Luke flys off Hoth and doesn’t pass a single ship.
gregs656 said:
- Luke asks Han to pass him his lightsaber in ROTJ having demonstrated the ability to force grab it in ESB.
Maybe you need clear line of sight to force grab - that certainly seems to be a common theme throughout the movies. Lukes lightsaber was attached to the back of his belt and he had restricted movement and LOS due to being caught in the net.gregs656 said:
- Explain to me Luke’s plan to rescue Han from Jabba? And why EVERYONE needed to be there?
Because it's essentially a team up buddy movie.......gregs656 said:
- We never get an explanation of the time difference between Luke on dagobah and everyone else on cloud city. He leaves Dagobah after an apparently descent length of time, the cloud city story takes place over a much shorter period of time. That’s cloud city where Bobba Fett followed Han to, but turned up before he did...
Luke left for Degobah after the events of Hoth. Cloud city isn't the only thing that happened to the Falcon during Luke's time on Degobah. They were chased by star destroyers, hid in an asteroid, were chased again by star destroyers after almost being eaten by a space worm, then hid on a star destroyer - before finally detaching and travelling to Cloud city followed by Fett. We don't know how long any of this took - they could have been holed up in the asteroid or attached to the star destroyer for days - or it might have taken a week or more to get to cloud city (Han does remark that it's pretty remote).
gregs656 said:
- ‘The are no signs of life’ on the escape pod with R2 on it so they decide to ignore it. Odd choice in a universe with droids.
I'll give you that one - but then, everyone has an off day at work every now and again. I'm sure those guys had their pay docked as a result 
Maybe it was 'take you kid to work day' and they got distracted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cizlx6ODhuE
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 28th May 09:29
I can’t believe anyone is defending TLJ. It’s terrible. Even ignoring the fact it’s Star Wars, it’s just a terrible film.
Crap storyline (we can only follow them at arms length but they are going to run out of fuel soon), ridiculous attempts at jokes (anything with Poe) , characters no one cares about (Finns sidekick girl) , whole scenes no one cares about (casino planet) etc etc.
None of the above is due to it being a Star Wars film. Those could apply to any film.
That it WAS a Star Wars film and it also destroyed a lot of what was set up in TFA like the lightsaber (thrown away as a stupid joke), Reys parents (nobodies), snoke (don’t worry bout that), ray seeing the ‘light’ in kylo (after literally a couple days before seeing him murder his own father and nearly kill Finn), going to find luke and him hating it (why leave a map then mate) makes it even worse!
It did well because TFA actually was alright (and Rogue One was brilliant) and set up a lot of things people wanted to see conclusions for.
Crap storyline (we can only follow them at arms length but they are going to run out of fuel soon), ridiculous attempts at jokes (anything with Poe) , characters no one cares about (Finns sidekick girl) , whole scenes no one cares about (casino planet) etc etc.
None of the above is due to it being a Star Wars film. Those could apply to any film.
That it WAS a Star Wars film and it also destroyed a lot of what was set up in TFA like the lightsaber (thrown away as a stupid joke), Reys parents (nobodies), snoke (don’t worry bout that), ray seeing the ‘light’ in kylo (after literally a couple days before seeing him murder his own father and nearly kill Finn), going to find luke and him hating it (why leave a map then mate) makes it even worse!
It did well because TFA actually was alright (and Rogue One was brilliant) and set up a lot of things people wanted to see conclusions for.
gregs656 said:
Right - these things can be explained away if you want to. I am seeing a lot of 'maybe' and 'we don't know' - not a lot of 'this is explained in the film when'.
Nobody is saying a film has to explain everything and gaps can often be filled in by what is implied rather than explained - but contradicting established canon is harder to overlook.Rey took hours/days to acquire skills Anakin and Luke took years to acquire and master. Her abilities even after a few days seemed to be on par with a master Jedi like Yoda who was hundreds of years old (e.g. levitating multiple large rocks with ease).
Then we have crap like light speed ramming! In a stand alone sci-fi movie this scene would be fine and it was a beautifully stunning piece of cinematography - however in Star Wars - it fundamentally breaks space combat and negates the very point of building massive super weapons like the Death Star or Star Killer base.
gregs656 said:
Darth (name) Vader was never meant to be Luke’s father. Both those things changed. As a result if you sit down and watch the films as they stand it is jarring. You might not see it as a flaw but I do.
It actually changed as part of a script revision before the film was being shot AFAIK.
You can only take things as they are. It is ‘the original trilogy’ when it watches like the original 1 + 2 for me.
There are plenty of mistakes:
- The rebels can’t escape hoth because there is an emperial blockade. Luke flys off Hoth and doesn’t pass a single ship.
- Luke asks Han to pass him his lightsaber in ROTJ having demonstrated the ability to force grab it in ESB.
- Explain to me Luke’s plan to rescue Han from Jabba? And why EVERYONE needed to be there?
- We never get an explanation of the time difference between Luke on dagobah and everyone else on cloud city. He leaves Dagobah after an apparently descent length of time, the cloud city story takes place over a much shorter period of time. That’s cloud city where Bobba Fett followed Han to, but turned up before he did...
- ‘The are no signs of life’ on the escape pod with R2 on it so they decide to ignore it. Odd choice in a universe with droids.
When the orignal aired, yeah Darh wasn't LUke's dad, I can't see how it jarrs at all, if we didn't know from the making of, we wouldn't know, there's a retor active word for that, but I can't recall what it is, Kenobi uses NIgerian proiveb to show his feelings on the matter in the third film, if you feel jarred from that fine, but it's hardly an objective a flaw.It actually changed as part of a script revision before the film was being shot AFAIK.
You can only take things as they are. It is ‘the original trilogy’ when it watches like the original 1 + 2 for me.
There are plenty of mistakes:
- The rebels can’t escape hoth because there is an emperial blockade. Luke flys off Hoth and doesn’t pass a single ship.
- Luke asks Han to pass him his lightsaber in ROTJ having demonstrated the ability to force grab it in ESB.
- Explain to me Luke’s plan to rescue Han from Jabba? And why EVERYONE needed to be there?
- We never get an explanation of the time difference between Luke on dagobah and everyone else on cloud city. He leaves Dagobah after an apparently descent length of time, the cloud city story takes place over a much shorter period of time. That’s cloud city where Bobba Fett followed Han to, but turned up before he did...
- ‘The are no signs of life’ on the escape pod with R2 on it so they decide to ignore it. Odd choice in a universe with droids.
THere's different version of how a lot of stuff changed, as an example both Alec and LUcas say the decision for Kenobi to die was theirs,memories are flakey.Moving making is a malleable process
I can recall Luke taking off, not any flying bit scene, other ships escaped. SIngle fighter hard to get/not bothered, Vader was using it more as a reason to get a particular person unbeknownst to the jabronis..
Luke reckons he's a knight, he's good but delusions of grandeur The ay I see the force working in the first three is if you are at peace and have your mojo, it's all good (like SPider-Man in SM2), LUke is basically unbattled trained, it's his first fight as a jedi I think? He's not exactly Basil Rathbone. In Empire he doesn't have people trying to shoot him.
Back-up and safety? to reduce possible loss of life against one of the toughest, cunning figures out there? The first plan was for Leia to steal Han out from under the nose. It went wrong and there was a back up plan with Lando still hidden for help. That seems to me more like good writing on plans going wrong, than other.
yeah that's a good observation. Ties in to something I posted above. Luke has, not sure a few days to a week 'training', to maybe a couple of weeks? I think it's a few weeks myself. Like a personal trainer and then he whizzes off thinking he's a knight. Yoda/Kenobi gave him the rush version. How much time do the others spend running from the Empire, it might be a few weeks all told, because they start by chasing them all, I can't even recall if the empire slits up at that point to follow, at one point the main ship has to move out of the asteroid field to send a message, then they have to get the tie bombers to hit the big asteroids, who knows how long they hid in that field? how much time was that. Like GRR Martin/GoT the timeline is kept black there. But it's a reasonable enough observation since others have brought it up over the years.
Boba made a calculated guess, on his target, it's why he succeed and the rest of the mooks failed.
Signs of life, it's a good point, following it logically leads to a question/answer/question/answer. WHy not shoot, why waste a shot, do they do paperwork? But Droids exist, but then droids are pretty subservient and don't do their own thing, and get wiped regularly, ones like R2 and 3po are rare, but not shooting allows them to go and see where it lands, which they do. If somebody goes to meet it, it's clearly gone to this planet, just destroy the pod and forget about rebels on the ground?
Coolbanana said:
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-box-o...
Yep, Disney must be livid that they made a huge profit from TLJ!
The entire franchise is flawed if we all decide to nit-pick or feel a need to drive the story towards a preferred angle but the flaws are fine for this type of movie.
THe film netted a 415 dollar profit, which means I think, over 200 mill for Disney so that's good.Yep, Disney must be livid that they made a huge profit from TLJ!
The entire franchise is flawed if we all decide to nit-pick or feel a need to drive the story towards a preferred angle but the flaws are fine for this type of movie.
https://celluloidjunkie.com/2017/11/04/disney-can-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Last_...
TLJ doesn't need not picking for flaws though.
What flaws do the original three have?
Edited by Halb on Monday 28th May 10:10
Coolbanana said:
The entire franchise is flawed if we all decide to nit-pick or feel a need to drive the story towards a preferred angle but the flaws are fine for this type of movie. They aren't meant to be thought-provoking or intelligent. They are just a bit of fun.
Clearly though, for some of you, you take the story-line very seriously as if they were meant to be works of art and are left disappointed when something doesn't pan out the way you want it to. That's sad for you, I agree but was always a major risk with what are just 'fun' movies.
Rather sad that you think there is some fundamental divide between well written movies and fun movies. Perhaps the modern blockbusters with the endless Pirates or Transformers movies has created this expectation. There is no such divide and many of the greatest movies ever made are entertaining blockbusters. Clearly though, for some of you, you take the story-line very seriously as if they were meant to be works of art and are left disappointed when something doesn't pan out the way you want it to. That's sad for you, I agree but was always a major risk with what are just 'fun' movies.
Coolbanana said:
See them as just a bit of fun and they are, indeed, fun. As such, Disney is so far doing ok and will continue to make a profit overall with the Franchise.
Disney paid $4bn for the franchise so they need to make very substantial profits to justify that investment. In terms of calculating this profit I would like to point out that you don't calculate it by comparing the production budget in isolation with the worldwide GROSS takings. RobDickinson said:
They don't have to earn 4bn from it, owning it has value and they can sell it.
True but assets can go down in value. There is no guarantee somebody else will be willing to pay $4bn (plus inflation) for a franchise that has been run into the ground.Disney need to be careful - not only do they need to make films that are good enough to make a decent ROI, but they also need to protect or grow the value in their investment.
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 28th May 11:16
Moonhawk said:
RobDickinson said:
They don't have to earn 4bn from it, owning it has value and they can sell it.
True but assets can go down in value. There is no guarantee somebody else will be willing to pay $4bn (plus inflation) for a franchise that has been run into the ground.Disney need to be careful - not only do they need to make films that are good enough to make a decent ROI, but they also need to protect or grow the value in their investment.
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 28th May 11:16
chris watton said:
I'm not so sure anymore. The SW toys seem to be rotting on the shelves. Toys R Us has gone, some think it's because of Disney's insistence on pushing these new S(J)W toys to the detriment of other makes.
worldclassbulls
tters did a good video on the 'rose' toy. They overestimated that toys (and a lot of others) popularity. Quality seems to be an issue, also saturation, and simply the unlikeability of the characters. the days of 'must-haves' and genuine collectibles may have gone.also, there is competition, back when I needed SW toys (or I'd perish, I was pretty sure) I also wanted He-Man and Transformers, maybe some A-Team stuff...now? Jeez, so much out there.
Halb said:
worldclassbullstters did a good video on the 'rose' toy. They overestimated that toys (and a lot of others) popularity.
I suspect a large part of it is that most action figures are bought by (or for) boys/men and they probably want action figures they can identify with or fantasise about being that character. Female action figures have never really proven popular, even going back to the original movie days.tters did a good video on the 'rose' toy. They overestimated that toys (and a lot of others) popularity. There is no analogy of Luke or Han in these new movies - that's a pretty big market to miss out on.
Flip this around - do Ken dolls sell in anything like the numbers that Barbie does?
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 28th May 13:09
If anyone is boycotting Solo, or is even just reluctant due to the abomination that was the last jedi I understand.
However, Solo is a proper fan movie, just as Rogue One was, so what is most likely to happen is that Disney pulls the plug on the side stories and continues making a rip roaring of the main films, simply as the numbers add up.
That'd be a real shame, as there has been a lot set up by Solo that most fans want to see the blanks filled in for.
Right now my hierarchy is:
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars
Rogue One
Solo
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Prequels in any order you like
Caravan of Courage
Star Wars Holiday Special
Waterworld
Plan 9
Ang Lee's Hulk
Used Toilet Paper
The Last Jedi
However, Solo is a proper fan movie, just as Rogue One was, so what is most likely to happen is that Disney pulls the plug on the side stories and continues making a rip roaring
of the main films, simply as the numbers add up.That'd be a real shame, as there has been a lot set up by Solo that most fans want to see the blanks filled in for.
Right now my hierarchy is:
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars
Rogue One
Solo
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Prequels in any order you like
Caravan of Courage
Star Wars Holiday Special
Waterworld
Plan 9
Ang Lee's Hulk
Used Toilet Paper
The Last Jedi
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