Saturday 15th December 2018

Porsche 911 (992): Not Driven yet

But we have been in the passenger seat of the new Carrera. And guess what...

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While some journalists have already driven the new 992-generation Porsche 911, they aren't allowed to tell you what it's like yet. PH hasn't slipped behind that velvet rope, but we can report on what it feels like from the passenger seat after a brief run at Hockenheim.

Don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those drive-by-proxy stories that occasionally crop up in relation to a hotly anticipated new car. You probably know the sort of thing, with artful phrases like "on the road" and "at the limit" to fudge the fact that you don't have an idea what the car actually feels like.

Riding shotgun around a famous racetrack in a 911 is an entertaining way to pass 10 minutes. It turns out there's a choice of steed as well, with multiple examples parked in the Hockenheim paddock alongside their official Porsche pilots - this was part of the same two day brief-a-thon that we've already done a story on. I pick a bright yellow Carrera 2S piloted by a short guy who looks lean and racey; he seems to be sitting with his chest about a foot from the steering wheel. It soon turns out that I have chosen well.

The driver is Andreas Patzelt, and he works as one of Porsche's durability test team having joined the company five years ago. "So your job is to try and break things?" I ask. "Exactly!" he replies, with an encouraging grin.

Strapping in and rumbling out of the paddock gives time to take in a few basics. The seating position is low but the view out is good: the twin humps of the front wings still giving something to aim between. The new cabin layout will take some getting used to; it's a long stretch to get the heater controls turned down. There's a muscular burble coming from the back of the car, and ride seems pliant over the bumps on the way to the track.

Once on the circuit Andreas starts off with the car in its softest Normal mode although a big squirm in the first corner proves that there isn't much grip to be had. Patzelt apologies and blames cold tyres, but then admits that he is a keen amateur racer with a fair amount of VLN experience.

There are three laps in total, Andreas turning the drive mode to Sport for the second and Sport Plus for the third. As pace increases and G-force loadings become more obvious. They feel entirely 911-appropriate, although I wouldn't say there's any obvious difference to the level of force I'd be feeling in a similarly piloted 991. Cornering is flat, braking is both late and drama-free and traction is good, although Andreas is clearly pushing the rear axle to the limits of grip.

Then beyond: there's a final lap with the stability control fully switched off and some amusingly sideways showboating in the slower stuff. It's clear the Carrera 2 doesn't have the torque for sustained high-speed drifting - hardly what it's designed for - but there's more than enough to kick the tail loose and hold some lurid angles in tighter turns.

As for the small matters of steering feel, throttle response, brake pedal weighting, how the car responds to inputs and how it communicates back - those are all questions for another day.

Finally there's a chance to experience the new Wet Mode function, which is more instructive. This is on a special wetted skidpad incorporating an ultra-low grip section designed to simulate ice.

In Normal mode the 911 copes well enough, but despite the obvious intervention of the stability control there is still plenty of sliding from both front and rear. A sensor on the front wheel arches detects when the car is driving through standing water and suggests Wet Mode, and selecting it pretty much puts the chassis into lockdown: now there's much less sensation of the car losing traction or front-end grip, even on the pretend ice. While damp surfaces can be fun, there's a lot to be said for a drama filter switch which seems to pretty much turn the 911 into an old-fashioned quattro-driven Audi, impervious to almost anything the weather can throw at you.

Anyway, promising start, but - to get all Christmassy - the proof of this pudding really will come when we're finally allowed to eat it.

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[redroadster]

Looks to heavy at rear suppose if your an arse man that's ok .

[80sMatchbox]

I think it looks slightly better in one or two of these images than I've previously seen but....it's all that black plastic that spoils the front and rear. I love black cars, and this will help make those bits blend in more.

[Dale487]

redroadster said:

Looks to heavy at rear suppose if your an arse man that's ok .

Is it possible that I saw a 992 in Manchester earlier this week? (Or maybe it was just a 991.2 but it was dark, raining and shot past me) - If I did its Jessica Rabbit curvy and sounded muted but special.

[greenarrow]

I think it looks great, but I have to agree with one motoring magazine headline which called it a "Porker".

Even the base Carrera is over 1500KG now I believe and like the 991 before it, it looks a big car on the road. I know someone will be along in a minute to say that people have got bigger (especially the typical powerfully built director types who can afford 911s) but its a shame the car has got wider and wider over the years. The Mk4 MX5 proved that you can evolve a car whilst keeping it compact and light.

For me, the early 997 Carrera S was the last 911 which still looked dimunitive and threadable.

That said, as a lifelong 911 fan I await the first drive with relish!

[Venisonpie]

So you have to spend 2 days watching power point presentations and then have someone demonstrate the different driving modes whilst you don't get to drive it. They really know how get people excited at Porsche. Or do they need to run through this process in case you won't notice the difference between this and the last one? Dreary.

[Wills2]

greenarrow said:

I think it looks great, but I have to agree with one motoring magazine headline which called it a "Porker".

Even the base Carrera is over 1500KG now I believe and like the 991 before it, it looks a big car on the road. I know someone will be along in a minute to say that people have got bigger (especially the typical powerfully built director types who can afford 911s) but its a shame the car has got wider and wider over the years. .

For me, the early 997 Carrera S was the last 911 which still looked dimunitive and threadable.

That said, as a lifelong 911 fan I await the first drive with relish!

The new one is the same width as the wider bodied 997 C4/S models, the change is they have dropped the narrow body for the new car so they all have a wider rear track, but the 2018 992 C4S is the same maximum width as the 2005 997 C4S, only the C2/S has got wider by 44mm.

[Hitch]

What a lovely looking thing.

[FK]

Wills2 said:

greenarrow said:

I think it looks great, but I have to agree with one motoring magazine headline which called it a "Porker".

Even the base Carrera is over 1500KG now I believe and like the 991 before it, it looks a big car on the road. I know someone will be along in a minute to say that people have got bigger (especially the typical powerfully built director types who can afford 911s) but its a shame the car has got wider and wider over the years. .

For me, the early 997 Carrera S was the last 911 which still looked dimunitive and threadable.

That said, as a lifelong 911 fan I await the first drive with relish!

The new one is the same width as the wider bodied 997 C4/S models, the change is they have dropped the narrow body for the new car so they all have a wider rear track, but the 2018 992 C4S is the same maximum width as the 2005 997 C4S, only the C2/S has got wider by 44mm.

Ah this makes sense, because I think in the past, they used to give the 4wd 911s wider rear tyres (to go with their wider hips when compared with the 2wd cars). I never knew why they did that when the 4wd models are sending less power to their rear wheels than the 2wd models. Hopefully someone far more knowledgeable than me can fill in the gaps in my knowledge!

Back to the car, (knowing Porsche, the car will be great), and yes it looks nice, but so did the 991 and the 997 to my eyes. A couple of people have turbocharged 'normal' 911s on my road and the turbos really muffle the sound, and I preferred the note of the normally aspirated versions. But with the times we live in, something are far more important than a decent engine note (apparently)!

[RDMcG]

I expect we will get used to it as usual. I think the 996 is the only one that retained a reputation for ugliness.

As an RS person I will be waiting as usual, but I look forward to trying the 992. When I tried an early 991S I found it disappointing and remote compared to my 997RS but the 991 developed very well over its life.

Appearance? Seems quite nice although the Cab looks horribly portly. The interior will take a bit of getting used to.

[Carl_Manchester]

FK said:

Wills2 said:

greenarrow said:

I think it looks great, but I have to agree with one motoring magazine headline which called it a "Porker".

Even the base Carrera is over 1500KG now I believe and like the 991 before it, it looks a big car on the road. I know someone will be along in a minute to say that people have got bigger (especially the typical powerfully built director types who can afford 911s) but its a shame the car has got wider and wider over the years. .

For me, the early 997 Carrera S was the last 911 which still looked dimunitive and threadable.

That said, as a lifelong 911 fan I await the first drive with relish!

The new one is the same width as the wider bodied 997 C4/S models, the change is they have dropped the narrow body for the new car so they all have a wider rear track, but the 2018 992 C4S is the same maximum width as the 2005 997 C4S, only the C2/S has got wider by 44mm.

Ah this makes sense, because I think in the past, they used to give the 4wd 911s wider rear tyres (to go with their wider hips when compared with the 2wd cars). I never knew why they did that when the 4wd models are sending less power to their rear wheels than the 2wd models. Hopefully someone far more knowledgeable than me can fill in the gaps in my knowledge!

Back to the car, (knowing Porsche, the car will be great), and yes it looks nice, but so did the 991 and the 997 to my eyes. A couple of people have turbocharged 'normal' 911s on my road and the turbos really muffle the sound, and I preferred the note of the normally aspirated versions. But with the times we live in, something are far more important than a decent engine note (apparently)!

Although Wills2 is helpful as always, the rear track statistic is arguably the wrong metric to use as the 992 is signufantly larger than the 997.

Why does it look so huge? It’s because of the increase in width of the front of the car, it’s overall length and the change of the roofline over the 997 mean that it it’s enourmous proportions are only revealed when you actually park it next to something other than Porsche 992.

You will notice that the Porsche spy and press shots tend to avoid this situtation, with some notable exceptions.

i have accepted that the 992 is actually a 928 concept and not a 911 any more - the real 911 replacement is the Cayman - and have made peace with it on that basis. On that basis I really like both cars albeit that they are wearing the wrong badges.

[Beechie]

80sMatchbox said:

I think it looks slightly better in one or two of these images than I've previously seen but....it's all that black plastic that spoils the front and rear. I love black cars, and this will help make those bits blend in more.

Would you prefer it if the black plastic were shiny chrome, like on a '54 Chevy Bel Air?

[80sMatchbox]

Beechie said:

80sMatchbox said:

I think it looks slightly better in one or two of these images than I've previously seen but....it's all that black plastic that spoils the front and rear. I love black cars, and this will help make those bits blend in more.

Would you prefer it if the black plastic were shiny chrome, like on a '54 Chevy Bel Air?

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Edited by 80sMatchbox on Sunday 16th December 14:28

[MikeGalos]

greenarrow said:

Even the base Carrera is over 1500KG now I believe

Pretty amazing to remember that the original 911 (well, 901) was proudly under 1,000kg. (OK, it was listed at 998kg but that shows that Porsche cared about getting that last 2kg off the car to keep it below the 1K line)

[MikeGalos]

Carl_Manchester said:

i have accepted that the 992 is actually a 928 concept and not a 911 any more - the real 911 replacement is the Cayman - and have made peace with it on that basis.

Not a bad way of looking at it and it also has the advantage of Porsche finally getting to change the 911 away from the rear engine configuration after nearly fifty years of trying.

[Griffgrog]

Carl_Manchester said:

Although Wills2 is helpful as always, the rear track statistic is arguably the wrong metric to use as the 992 is signufantly larger than the 997.

Why does it look so huge? It’s because of the increase in width of the front of the car, it’s overall length and the change of the roofline over the 997 mean that it it’s enourmous proportions are only revealed when you actually park it next to something other than Porsche 992.

You will notice that the Porsche spy and press shots tend to avoid this situtation, with some notable exceptions.

i have accepted that the 992 is actually a 928 concept and not a 911 any more - the real 911 replacement is the Cayman - and have made peace with it on that basis. On that basis I really like both cars albeit that they are wearing the wrong badges.

The dimensions I saw show that it seems to be 2cm taller than the lowest 997 or 2cm lower than the tallest 997, the same width as the wide bodied versions, and about 3cm longer. Am I missing something?

[simonzerolimits]

A different view

Sorry Porsche, but things are moving on at snail pace - don't get me wrong: its a nice looking BIG car now, however my 84 is only 100BHP down in
real terms; yes my cars much slower, but my s4 chipped would be just as quick as the c4s !

We have had over 30 years porsche development for what, a bit of traction control ie wet mode - pretty boring ! less driver involvement.

calcs for 1984 carrera

230 bhp weight 1200 kg = 191 bhp per ton -
cal 1200/6x5 - 230 /6x5 = 191bhp per ton

yes not that amazing but still 150 mph for an old fun car

calc

NEW 2019 carrera 4s

444 bhp / 1500 kg ie 444/3x2 - 296 BHP PER TON - so ONLY 105 BHP per ton for over 30 years development !!!

not that great porsche.

[saxy]

simonzerolimits said:

A different view

Sorry Porsche, but things are moving on at snail pace - don't get me wrong: its a nice looking BIG car now, however my 84 is only 100BHP down in
real terms; yes my cars much slower, but my s4 chipped would be just as quick as the c4s !

We have had over 30 years porsche development for what, a bit of traction control ie wet mode - pretty boring ! less driver involvement.

calcs for 1984 carrera

230 bhp weight 1200 kg = 191 bhp per ton -
cal 1200/6x5 - 230 /6x5 = 191bhp per ton

yes not that amazing but still 150 mph for an old fun car

calc

NEW 2019 carrera 4s

444 bhp / 1500 kg ie 444/3x2 - 296 BHP PER TON - so ONLY 105 BHP per ton for over 30 years development !!!

not that great porsche.

105bhp per ton doesn’t seem like a lot until you put it to perspective. That’s more than 50% more. Then you add the fact that Porsche always underrated their turbo engines of this decade. The new 911 C2S/C4S will probably do 0-60 in 3.0-3.1s since the last 991.2 already did so. Half the time your 84 would take. That sure is development.

I’d like to see your S4 chipped to do those numbers

[MX6]

Seems like it's going to be another successful 911 from Porsche. With regards to the looks, obviously it's the usual mild evolution and they've kept it pretty sleek and clean thankfullly, I really like it. I'm not keen on all the black plastic in the bumpers but that seems to be where we are with car design now, those will look better against a darker paint colour.

[Carl_Manchester]

Griffgrog said:

The dimensions I saw show that it seems to be 2cm taller than the lowest 997 or 2cm lower than the tallest 997, the same width as the wide bodied versions, and about 3cm longer. Am I missing something?

Yes because I think, its like saying if i draw a square block but its only 2cm taller and 3cm lower then its fine.

I am not saying that the 992 is a square block compared to the 997 but absolute dimensions are not not the whole story, how the car fills those dimensions, including the front track size increase, is the key thing and the 992 is way beyond the 997 in terms of 'fill' - the easiest way to see it is if you park the 992 and 997 Carerra side-by-side which we should see done shortly.