Decatting & MOT
Discussion
Morning all - looking at buying a late model Cerbera 4.5, which has been well looked after by an enthusiast and has low mileage (<20k). Just trying to figure out a reasonable price. One issue is that it has had the cats removed and they were shot so haven’t been retained. The current owner has been able to get it through the MOT like this. What are others’ experiences? If I need to replace them for the MOT this feels like a fairly expensive start to ownership. Other than that no apparent major issues (chassis fine apart from a minor dink in one of the outriggers where it has caught something at some time in its history). Any advice on what sort of money these cars are currently making also welcome, although I can obviously see asking prices in the classifieds.
Any advice appreciated. Many thanks.
Any advice appreciated. Many thanks.
If you can find a TVR friendly mot station then the only alternative is to put them back in. Or borrow a pair for the MOT. You'll need them at some stage so I'd ask for money off to be able to get some. They are easy enough to put back in given a jack and a set of stands.
Most owners remove them including myself as it keeps cabin temps down. What's your location.
Most owners remove them including myself as it keeps cabin temps down. What's your location.
Hi Reb. 
Now it's Christmas and no-one wants to be a purveyor of negativity
BUT
I would research other marques to fulfill your dreams.
The last Cerb produced was in 2006 and if it hasn't averaged more than 2K a year then there is a problem.
Cerbs LOVE to be used so if there's a car out there with a low mileage then you shouldn't be interested.
As you only have three posts to your credit then I would seriously advise doing some more research.
Some will argue that your post is research
and I would counter with "If you think that buying a pair of Cats is a limit to your potential ownership then,
once again, I would recommend looking at another manufacturer".
Why not get yourself an M4 ?
Happy Christmas,
A 13-year-old owner
Now it's Christmas and no-one wants to be a purveyor of negativity
BUT
I would research other marques to fulfill your dreams.
The last Cerb produced was in 2006 and if it hasn't averaged more than 2K a year then there is a problem.
Cerbs LOVE to be used so if there's a car out there with a low mileage then you shouldn't be interested.
As you only have three posts to your credit then I would seriously advise doing some more research.
Some will argue that your post is research
and I would counter with "If you think that buying a pair of Cats is a limit to your potential ownership then,
once again, I would recommend looking at another manufacturer".
Why not get yourself an M4 ?
Happy Christmas,
A 13-year-old owner
Mr Cerbera said:
Some will argue that your post is research
and I would counter with "If you think that buying a pair of Cats is a limit to your potential ownership then,
once again, I would recommend looking at another manufacturer".
I absolutely agree! You don't need a bottomless pit of money to run a cerbera, but it helps! Three grand a year is still a good benchmark for owning a cerbera. Unless you find one that's just had everything done to it, in which case it will be for sale for 40k plus, and you might get a couple of years of use without any big bills.and I would counter with "If you think that buying a pair of Cats is a limit to your potential ownership then,
once again, I would recommend looking at another manufacturer".
If you really can afford to run one properly though then go for it, they're epic!
Thank you all for trying to save me from myself!
The point about the cats is not the only downside, but the MOT expires around the time I would want to start driving it so an instant failure would be an irritating start to proceedings.
What else would any of you buy that would rival a Cerbera? I respect BMW engineering but can’t see myself in an M4.
I have done some research, including looking at cars, driving one and reading the various buying guides. But short of making sure the chassis is OK and that early Speed 6 engines have been fettled and that everything obvious works, there appears to be no definitive list of what should have been addressed, other than dealing with things as they occur.
The point about the cats is not the only downside, but the MOT expires around the time I would want to start driving it so an instant failure would be an irritating start to proceedings.
What else would any of you buy that would rival a Cerbera? I respect BMW engineering but can’t see myself in an M4.
I have done some research, including looking at cars, driving one and reading the various buying guides. But short of making sure the chassis is OK and that early Speed 6 engines have been fettled and that everything obvious works, there appears to be no definitive list of what should have been addressed, other than dealing with things as they occur.
I recently took the plunge & don’t regret it... yet, who ever had fun being sensible?
These cars are simply awesome, super rare and still pretty quick (if you are brave enough). They are increasing in value so now is a good time to buy and then you can kid yourself that anything you spend is an investment - the 4.5’s hold a premium but you may prefer the other models if you try them.
You can get cats online pretty cheap but if you are worried about this it may not be the car for you, as this would be perhaps one of the easiest things to sort on the car, solvable for a couple of hundred at an exhaust shop or 20mins under the car with spanner’s. There is much more to be concerned about!!
Any car of this age is going to be a project, there is no knowing when, where or what you’ll need to do to it. A ‘sorted’ car is £40k+ so start with this figure in mind then assume bills will be coming your way remove all the big ones that the current owner hasn’t got an invoice or record of from this top price. Pricing chance in I would remove +£5kwhere no chassis rebuild, £3-4K without engine rebuild work, a grand for gearbox and clutch, £500 for a recent 12k service, a grand or two for the usual interior and exterior condition or a little more if it has a dodgy colour scheme (unless it looks cool and you like it!)
You’ll probably end up £25-30k if it’s reasonable, keep the aforementioned ‘war chest’ (in my opinion for a classic performance car of this rarity the big costs aren’t that bad even a new chassis installed with all the trimmings is some £10k, insurance is ok too). Most of the costs to keep it on the road are in labour so the good news is that if you are willing to get your hands dirty a lot is diyable as long as you have time because you will need to unbolt half the car to get access to the bit that needs fixing. Also parts are pretty cheap for a car in this league so if you are handy or willing to learn you can reduce the costs a lot.
These cars are simply awesome, super rare and still pretty quick (if you are brave enough). They are increasing in value so now is a good time to buy and then you can kid yourself that anything you spend is an investment - the 4.5’s hold a premium but you may prefer the other models if you try them.
You can get cats online pretty cheap but if you are worried about this it may not be the car for you, as this would be perhaps one of the easiest things to sort on the car, solvable for a couple of hundred at an exhaust shop or 20mins under the car with spanner’s. There is much more to be concerned about!!
Any car of this age is going to be a project, there is no knowing when, where or what you’ll need to do to it. A ‘sorted’ car is £40k+ so start with this figure in mind then assume bills will be coming your way remove all the big ones that the current owner hasn’t got an invoice or record of from this top price. Pricing chance in I would remove +£5kwhere no chassis rebuild, £3-4K without engine rebuild work, a grand for gearbox and clutch, £500 for a recent 12k service, a grand or two for the usual interior and exterior condition or a little more if it has a dodgy colour scheme (unless it looks cool and you like it!)
You’ll probably end up £25-30k if it’s reasonable, keep the aforementioned ‘war chest’ (in my opinion for a classic performance car of this rarity the big costs aren’t that bad even a new chassis installed with all the trimmings is some £10k, insurance is ok too). Most of the costs to keep it on the road are in labour so the good news is that if you are willing to get your hands dirty a lot is diyable as long as you have time because you will need to unbolt half the car to get access to the bit that needs fixing. Also parts are pretty cheap for a car in this league so if you are handy or willing to learn you can reduce the costs a lot.
That's 2 posts above reckon you need £40k for a 'sorted' Cerbera. Ahem, I have to beg to differ. For £40k, I'd expect a completely rebuilt mint or 'concourse' car (although that's subjective). (The Speed 6 in the classifieds at £50k with 15k miles has been there months)
My 4.5 (33k miles) was under £20k from a club member (the clutch (£1300 on its own!), valve gaps, fuel hoses, starter motor clutch & air con recharge all done recently) and although in winter slumber now, I covered 600 miles in it since early October at a cost of £50 for minor airbox mod & new bracket, locking wheel nuts and bonnet pins and grommets.. And another £40 getting various engine bay brackets powder coated and screws replaced. Of course, man maths avoids the calculation of fuel usage at 19 mpg.
Having had 3 x Chimaeras, I'm aware something may bite me soon, like new front tyres soon (plenty of tread but 14 y.o !)and if I was fussy, I'd get the front resprayed but it's acceptable to me. The outriggers are original too.
There are plenty of what I'd call, good Cerberas for sale in the £20k - £25 bracket in much better condition than mine. The yellow 4.5 one at Bespoke for £20k in the classifieds may have 54k miles on it but may be worth a look. Bespoke in London have had several in the low £20k s for a while now. Are they really that bad that they need another £15k spending on them??
The biggest jump is being prepared to buy private rather than from a dealer. Its a leap most won't make, and is understandable if you aren't aware of the foibles of the marque.
My 4.5 (33k miles) was under £20k from a club member (the clutch (£1300 on its own!), valve gaps, fuel hoses, starter motor clutch & air con recharge all done recently) and although in winter slumber now, I covered 600 miles in it since early October at a cost of £50 for minor airbox mod & new bracket, locking wheel nuts and bonnet pins and grommets.. And another £40 getting various engine bay brackets powder coated and screws replaced. Of course, man maths avoids the calculation of fuel usage at 19 mpg.
Having had 3 x Chimaeras, I'm aware something may bite me soon, like new front tyres soon (plenty of tread but 14 y.o !)and if I was fussy, I'd get the front resprayed but it's acceptable to me. The outriggers are original too.
There are plenty of what I'd call, good Cerberas for sale in the £20k - £25 bracket in much better condition than mine. The yellow 4.5 one at Bespoke for £20k in the classifieds may have 54k miles on it but may be worth a look. Bespoke in London have had several in the low £20k s for a while now. Are they really that bad that they need another £15k spending on them??
The biggest jump is being prepared to buy private rather than from a dealer. Its a leap most won't make, and is understandable if you aren't aware of the foibles of the marque.
If you've got a good car for under 20k then you've done well! I spent 8k on mine in my first year of ownership (engine, chassis, suspension). I think if you're buying at 20k or under you've got to expect some expense! From working on cerbs for over 2 decades I find 3k a year is a very fair number when averaged out over ownership.
I think the average annual cost is dependant on mileage really, but I know your experience will likely be closer to the mark. It already has one of your whirlwind kits!
I had forgotten the front brake discs are very worn.
(If I change them though, there's the option of solid one piece to replace the rotors and bells). And of course, with reference to the OP, MoT time in June may be revealing.
I had forgotten the front brake discs are very worn.
(If I change them though, there's the option of solid one piece to replace the rotors and bells). And of course, with reference to the OP, MoT time in June may be revealing.Edited by ianwayne on Tuesday 18th December 17:25
Hi Rebel,
A lot of common sense has already been said. I personally think there are two ways to manage Cerbera ownership as things WILL go wrong:
1) you pay for someone else to work on it (preferably a local Indie/ Specialist (with associated costs)
or
2) you do a lot of it yourself (way cheaper in $ but not with your time/ temper)! You may need another car as a runaround.
Yep, whatever the miles the car will develop faults, often niggly ones but faults non the less.
Buying through a reputable dealer with a pre- inspection report AND a cast iron warranty must be the only way to go UNLESS you are a die hard number 2 above. I did neither and have paid with my time and effort - sometimes enjoyable other times not.
The Cerbera forum is amazing with many excellent contributors way more skilled/ knowledgeable than me - I have survived (just) as a number 2 but the wife detests the amount of time the Cerb is in the garage rather than on the road!
In under 3 years of ownership I have had to deal with a LOAD of issues whilst my 12 yr old BMW 530d has only needed a few minor things (bulbs etc). I personally know which car I could not do without!
You pays your money and makes your choice!
A lot of common sense has already been said. I personally think there are two ways to manage Cerbera ownership as things WILL go wrong:
1) you pay for someone else to work on it (preferably a local Indie/ Specialist (with associated costs)
or
2) you do a lot of it yourself (way cheaper in $ but not with your time/ temper)! You may need another car as a runaround.
Yep, whatever the miles the car will develop faults, often niggly ones but faults non the less.
Buying through a reputable dealer with a pre- inspection report AND a cast iron warranty must be the only way to go UNLESS you are a die hard number 2 above. I did neither and have paid with my time and effort - sometimes enjoyable other times not.
The Cerbera forum is amazing with many excellent contributors way more skilled/ knowledgeable than me - I have survived (just) as a number 2 but the wife detests the amount of time the Cerb is in the garage rather than on the road!
In under 3 years of ownership I have had to deal with a LOAD of issues whilst my 12 yr old BMW 530d has only needed a few minor things (bulbs etc). I personally know which car I could not do without!
You pays your money and makes your choice!
It hasn't been driven for 6 weeks and won't be again for a while yet. That's a short life (14 years / 3 sets?) you mentioned!
6 years is a guide I've read, but it isn't hard and fast. They are Goodyears, the previous owner garaged the car so very little UV light degradation. He bought the wheels and tyres from someone who'd had them in storage. They are not perished and there is no cracking of the rubber, and the grip seemed fine to me. They will get changed before the spring though.
The front tyres on the Chimaera I bought in Aug 2017 were 19 y.o. They had 'gone off' (were rock hard) and lethal and were switched straight away.
6 years is a guide I've read, but it isn't hard and fast. They are Goodyears, the previous owner garaged the car so very little UV light degradation. He bought the wheels and tyres from someone who'd had them in storage. They are not perished and there is no cracking of the rubber, and the grip seemed fine to me. They will get changed before the spring though.
The front tyres on the Chimaera I bought in Aug 2017 were 19 y.o.
They had 'gone off' (were rock hard) and lethal and were switched straight away. Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff