Patrick Stewart to return as Picard
Discussion
AlexC1981 said:
I've never met anyone in real life who likes Star Trek. I've spoken to friends, family, colleagues... The only time I can ever discuss it with someone is online.
I can see why initially they wanted to move away from traditional TNG style Trek. Away from us middle aged fans, TNG style Star Trek has a very poor reputation.
Agreed, unlike Star Wars it seemed to progress from geeky to cool so people feel comfortable being outspoken about their fandom. Literally never met anyone in real life who even watches any Trek. I can see why initially they wanted to move away from traditional TNG style Trek. Away from us middle aged fans, TNG style Star Trek has a very poor reputation.
That said, I've watched it since TNG, watched the original films and have seen all of it several times over. I liked Discovery, in parts. I never had a problem with the themes, just the overall storytelling was disjointed with a lot of missed opportunities. I think S1 and S2 were good (even the Klingons which were less jarring on second watch) and the future set seasons would have been better if they hadn't had the drawn out burn investigation and then the whole 10C plot of S5.
I dont' think they'll be cutting back at all on Trek going forward, I certainly agree they're re-focusing funds with the cancellation of Disco but Lower Decks, SNW and other latest season of Picard have gathered more and more critical and fan acclaim than anything for a long while. Even Prodigy is solid, tapping into the nostalgia whilst appealing to a younger audience leaving newer trek to cater more for adults.
I'm happy if they don't make any more films and just continue to fund seasons like SNW and Picard. Sign me up.
Guvernator said:
Evercross said:
I think you spoke to soon WRT The Mandalorian. Season 3 has got off to an ignominious start, but it was doomed when 'person who understood the show and was doing it properly (John Favreau)' clashed with 'interfering woke producer' (Kathleen Kennedy) and lost. The ending of season 2 was effectively reset thanks to interference in the Boba Fett spin-off series, and now The Mandalorian has gone from a strong male character to a misguided religious obsessive who needs a strong female to rescue him.
If you had said 'Andor' above you would be closer to the mark.
I fear you may be right, I've not been impressed with Mando Season 3 so far. I didn't know the background but it just felt off, now I know why. If you had said 'Andor' above you would be closer to the mark.
Guvernator said:
From what I'm reading, Paramount are losing money hand over fist, reported losses of $1.8bn this year and that's the reason why they will be cutting back on a lot of production including a lot of the Star Trek content.
This is all fallout from years of making woke garbage that fans hate.Shows typically get approved and set in motion 2-3 years in advance so we are still seeing the effects of making extremely unpopular (and very importantly, un-profitable) products .. it will take a while before they start to push out entertainment which people actually want again and of course much damage has been done.
The new Picard is absolutely excellent. It is what Season One should have been. Too bad it has to deal with the mal-effects of years of idiotic writers and showrunners and a general decline in the popularity of the ST franchise as a result.
Lucas Ayde said:
Guvernator said:
From what I'm reading, Paramount are losing money hand over fist, reported losses of $1.8bn this year and that's the reason why they will be cutting back on a lot of production including a lot of the Star Trek content.
This is all fallout from years of making woke garbage that fans hate.nebpor said:
Can you take all the "woke" crap into the NPE forum or something please - it's got utterly no relevance here.
But don't you see Neb, TV has been much worse recently because women and gays are allowed on it. We should go back to the old theatre days when all the women were played by men.ZedLeg said:
nebpor said:
Can you take all the "woke" crap into the NPE forum or something please - it's got utterly no relevance here.
But don't you see Neb, TV has been much worse recently because women and gays are allowed on it. We should go back to the old theatre days when all the women were played by men.For my part, what I had in mind was the truly awful writing for recent rubbish by people clearly not up to the job, which has zero to do with race/colour/creed/gender! Normally, if scripts and plot are well written and planned out, they are usually well liked and end up being popular.
Picard Season 3 is proving popular because it does offer an engaging plot and the characters are written well.
I assume you have bought all of the blu rays of the other stuff, then, as you like it all so much - perhaps even merchandise?
chris watton said:
Lucas Ayde said:
Guvernator said:
From what I'm reading, Paramount are losing money hand over fist, reported losses of $1.8bn this year and that's the reason why they will be cutting back on a lot of production including a lot of the Star Trek content.
This is all fallout from years of making woke garbage that fans hate.Guess they really have replicated the Netflix model, including the financials.
As for the content - the problem dates back years and is mostly down to cack handed interference by executives into the creative process rather than anything fundamental about the content; there's lots of well received stuff out there that covers exactly the same 'woke' themes, the difference is it was well written and made.
(Compare/contrast how ST Discovery covered certain themes & characters with Umbrella Academy)
A lot of recent TV has been bad due to many factors, poor writing, poor production decisions, having people involved who don't even understand the source material and yes sometimes that also includes prioritising politicising over good story telling. This malaise seems to be something that has gripped Hollywood over the last 5 years or so with many big budget shows failing to live up to potential due to several or all of those factors combined.
Produce crap TV and then try to label fans as nerds with no lives or worse bigots and use that as an excuse for when it bombs. We've seen a perfect example of that in this thread. I'm not a bigot, I just want to watch good TV and for people to try to shame me as such says more about them than me tbh. In fact it's exactly what Hollywood have tried to do several times over the last few years when their big films or shows have failed and we are all seeing how well that's working out for them now. The sad thing is, as we are seeing now, it will lead to cancellations of some of our favourite shows or franchises which is the worst outcome. They've finally found the right formula for Picard Season 3 but unfortunately it's highly unlikely there will be any more due to big mistakes made by the showrunners.
Produce crap TV and then try to label fans as nerds with no lives or worse bigots and use that as an excuse for when it bombs. We've seen a perfect example of that in this thread. I'm not a bigot, I just want to watch good TV and for people to try to shame me as such says more about them than me tbh. In fact it's exactly what Hollywood have tried to do several times over the last few years when their big films or shows have failed and we are all seeing how well that's working out for them now. The sad thing is, as we are seeing now, it will lead to cancellations of some of our favourite shows or franchises which is the worst outcome. They've finally found the right formula for Picard Season 3 but unfortunately it's highly unlikely there will be any more due to big mistakes made by the showrunners.
AlexC1981 said:
I've never met anyone in real life who likes Star Trek. I've spoken to friends, family, colleagues... The only time I can ever discuss it with someone is online.
I can see why initially they wanted to move away from traditional TNG style Trek. Away from us middle aged fans, TNG style Star Trek has a very poor reputation.
I like Star Trek. probably since Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Yoda!I can see why initially they wanted to move away from traditional TNG style Trek. Away from us middle aged fans, TNG style Star Trek has a very poor reputation.
I am not a nerd either.
Ref: “woke” in recent Star Trek. The problem I had with it was that it’s badly written - it should be show, don’t tell.
Have people casually being referred to as “they”, or meeting up with their same sex partners for dinner in the background (or as a plot point if it fits, whatever) as an unremarked and unremarkable part of being in the world. That would work fine.
The idea that anyone would need, for example, to state their pronouns as though they were coming out in this world is (or should be) a nonsense. They’re supposed to have moved beyond this, to a time where it doesn’t matter and is as relevant as hair colour.
It should be in the background and part of the fabric of the world, rather than having to be front and centre with a big flashing sign pointing to how inclusive they’re being. Show us what life could (and should) be like when everyone is accepted for who they are, without making a fuss over it, in order to build a convincing world.
All IMHO, obviously.
Have people casually being referred to as “they”, or meeting up with their same sex partners for dinner in the background (or as a plot point if it fits, whatever) as an unremarked and unremarkable part of being in the world. That would work fine.
The idea that anyone would need, for example, to state their pronouns as though they were coming out in this world is (or should be) a nonsense. They’re supposed to have moved beyond this, to a time where it doesn’t matter and is as relevant as hair colour.
It should be in the background and part of the fabric of the world, rather than having to be front and centre with a big flashing sign pointing to how inclusive they’re being. Show us what life could (and should) be like when everyone is accepted for who they are, without making a fuss over it, in order to build a convincing world.
All IMHO, obviously.
Casting aside irrelevant pejoratives like 'woke' I have noticed a pattern of including certain elements in an attempt to seem current, which will only feel extremely dated not long from now.
For example, episode 5 of the latest series contains several mentions of 'AI'. Which in just a few years' time let alone when the series is supposed to be set, will come across as a quaint and anachronistic reference.
For example, episode 5 of the latest series contains several mentions of 'AI'. Which in just a few years' time let alone when the series is supposed to be set, will come across as a quaint and anachronistic reference.
DanL said:
Ref: “woke” in recent Star Trek. The problem I had with it was that it’s badly written - it should be show, don’t tell.
Have people casually being referred to as “they”, or meeting up with their same sex partners for dinner in the background (or as a plot point if it fits, whatever) as an unremarked and unremarkable part of being in the world. That would work fine.
The idea that anyone would need, for example, to state their pronouns as though they were coming out in this world is (or should be) a nonsense. They’re supposed to have moved beyond this, to a time where it doesn’t matter and is as relevant as hair colour.
It should be in the background and part of the fabric of the world, rather than having to be front and centre with a big flashing sign pointing to how inclusive they’re being. Show us what life could (and should) be like when everyone is accepted for who they are, without making a fuss over it, in order to build a convincing world.
All IMHO, obviously.
This. The trouble is anyone hating on Disco and saying all the above still attracts insults and comments like those above. You can say it's nothing to do with being homophobic until you're blue in the face, they still throw those accusations around - the logic seems to be "you have to like Disco or you're anti LGBT" which is nonsense. Although I have to say the lunatic fringe hating on it as its "pinko liberal left" are even more mental.Have people casually being referred to as “they”, or meeting up with their same sex partners for dinner in the background (or as a plot point if it fits, whatever) as an unremarked and unremarkable part of being in the world. That would work fine.
The idea that anyone would need, for example, to state their pronouns as though they were coming out in this world is (or should be) a nonsense. They’re supposed to have moved beyond this, to a time where it doesn’t matter and is as relevant as hair colour.
It should be in the background and part of the fabric of the world, rather than having to be front and centre with a big flashing sign pointing to how inclusive they’re being. Show us what life could (and should) be like when everyone is accepted for who they are, without making a fuss over it, in order to build a convincing world.
All IMHO, obviously.
It’s not that the STD had ‘woke’ characters, it’s that they are s
t and the storylines are crap.
The Last of Us had an episode focused entirely on a homosexual couple and it was fantastic. Two likeable characters that showed more development in thirty minutes than we’ve seen in 3 seasons of STD.
STD has irritating characters whose names I can’t recall as they’re so meaningless, a piss poor storyline, and it all hides behind an LGBT shield to counter any criticism. It’s a shame as it had so much potential.
The Orville and Lower Decks provided proper Trek feeling sci fi, with SNW thankfully going back along those lines.
t and the storylines are crap. The Last of Us had an episode focused entirely on a homosexual couple and it was fantastic. Two likeable characters that showed more development in thirty minutes than we’ve seen in 3 seasons of STD.
STD has irritating characters whose names I can’t recall as they’re so meaningless, a piss poor storyline, and it all hides behind an LGBT shield to counter any criticism. It’s a shame as it had so much potential.
The Orville and Lower Decks provided proper Trek feeling sci fi, with SNW thankfully going back along those lines.
As suggested earlier, I've not bothered with series 2 after being bored by eps1 to 3 and started S3 last week.
Kind of liking it more and getting into the swing of it then that bloody woman with the drink/drug problem turns up.
Put me off straightaway. Dunno what it is but her character brought nothing to S1 and that bit of S2 that I had to endure.
Anyone would think I'm not a diehard trek fan but I was brought up on the original series, loved TNG, Voyager, DS9, most of the films and SNW.
I could not get into Discovery and maybe I'm finding Picard too much like that.
About to give Jean Luc another go, S3 ep2, make it so.
Kind of liking it more and getting into the swing of it then that bloody woman with the drink/drug problem turns up.
Put me off straightaway. Dunno what it is but her character brought nothing to S1 and that bit of S2 that I had to endure.
Anyone would think I'm not a diehard trek fan but I was brought up on the original series, loved TNG, Voyager, DS9, most of the films and SNW.
I could not get into Discovery and maybe I'm finding Picard too much like that.
About to give Jean Luc another go, S3 ep2, make it so.
nebpor said:
Can you take all the "woke" crap into the NPE forum or something please - it's got utterly no relevance here.
Unfortunately, it is very relevant indeed as over the last few years the production and writing of popular entertainment has been taken over by a bunch of zealous ideologues who insist on turning what should be entertainment into a platform for disseminating their fringe political opinions.They seem to have a particular zeal for destroying established shows and pissing off their fandoms. Or maybe it's just because they lack the talent to write new characters and shows and/or what they are trying to push would never be bought by anyone if it wasn't subverted into something already popular.
Now, it's coming back to bite the studios. Unfortunately, it's also badly damaged beloved properties like Star Trek and Star Wars.
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