The Game Changers Documentary
Discussion
LimaDelta said:
Care to expand? The moral aspect is not a major one for me, but the health benefits (or rather the detrimental effect of meat) seem fairly clear cut?
Veganism is a very restrictive diet and by avoiding meat, dairy etc you are foregoing some very nutrient dense foods with greater bioavailability of vitamins and minerals. Realize GC is basically vegan propaganda, if you are looking at doing it do some serious research are you are potentially going to be eating a very compromised diet.Chris Kresser is going to be on the Joe Rogan podcast in the next day or two discussing much of this and would definitely be worth a listen/watch for an alternative view and he is ex vegan.
I’d say you can eat a near optimal vegetarian diet, I don’t believe it possible with vegan.
mikiec said:
Veganism is a very restrictive diet and by avoiding meat, dairy etc you are foregoing some very nutrient dense foods with greater bioavailability of vitamins and minerals. Realize GC is basically vegan propaganda, if you are looking at doing it do some serious research are you are potentially going to be eating a very compromised diet.
Chris Kresser is going to be on the Joe Rogan podcast in the next day or two discussing much of this and would definitely be worth a listen/watch for an alternative view and he is ex vegan.
I’d say you can eat a near optimal vegetarian diet, I don’t believe it possible with vegan.
So why are so many 'winners' vegan these days? if it didn't produce measurable results in competition then surely they wouldn't do it since winning is all that matters to these people?Chris Kresser is going to be on the Joe Rogan podcast in the next day or two discussing much of this and would definitely be worth a listen/watch for an alternative view and he is ex vegan.
I’d say you can eat a near optimal vegetarian diet, I don’t believe it possible with vegan.
What is your background? Genuinely interested if this is your day-job or just something you have read up about. As I said in my OP I understand the inherent bias in these types of documentary, hence the thread.
mikiec said:
Seriously I wouldn't rely on anything presented as science in game changers. lots of critiques on the web about the flaws/ inaccuracies in GC. Veganism is suboptimal nutrition and makes little sense to do from a health perspective, morally it has it's rationale but I would argue it's pretty flawed as well.
Aren’t loads of top sportsmen and women veggies or using plant based diets etc? Seems like there’s plenty of evidence it’s actually more healthy from a nutrition perspective. What’s the evidence that veganism is suboptimal nutrition?
I’m not vegan btw just that what I’ve seen seems to contradict your research,
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th November 07:39
LimaDelta said:
...I know veganism is on the rise and believed to be 10% of the UK population now.
It's probably on the rise but it's never been anywhere near 10%; more likely well under 1%.https://fullfact.org/health/vegans-uk/
It's fashionable at the moment but veganism is an extreme solution so it's never likely to become mainstream. I haven't seen this one but Netflix have a thing for pseudo-scientific propaganda documentaries so I'd treat it with caution.
LimaDelta said:
So why are so many 'winners' vegan these days? if it didn't produce measurable results in competition then surely they wouldn't do it since winning is all that matters to these people?
Because they're able to have their diet planned for them by professionals who can replace all the stuff they are otherwise missing. We're not complicated creatures really. We need the right amount of x,y and z and it really doesn't matter where we get them from. If you understand that you can do it.
You need to really understand diet and nutrition to do it properly, and use supplements for the things you'd otherwise be lacking e.g. Vitamin B12.
Just don't fall into the trap of believing plant-based and natural means healthier because that's just bulls
t 
LimaDelta said:
So why are so many 'winners' vegan these days? if it didn't produce measurable results in competition then surely they wouldn't do it since winning is all that matters to these people?
What is your background? Genuinely interested if this is your day-job or just something you have read up about. As I said in my OP I understand the inherent bias in these types of documentary, hence the thread.
Are there many winners, there are a few, but truly world class maybe only Lewis Hamilton? Novak is pescatarian. The overwhelmingly majority of world class athletes are omnivores.What is your background? Genuinely interested if this is your day-job or just something you have read up about. As I said in my OP I understand the inherent bias in these types of documentary, hence the thread.
What most athletes do is also far from what many would consider healthy, I recall one of the US swimmers, possibly Phelps basically lived on ice cream and pizza. But In their context calories are often seen as key.
If you want an idea of veganism as a sub optimal diet google ‘malnourished vegan child’
mikiec said:
If you want an idea of veganism as a sub optimal diet google ‘malnourished vegan child’
Could you not do the same for a non Vegan child too? There are plenty of children that are malnourished from all backgrounds and diets.I am very much a meat and potato man as far as diet goes, I watched this doc and am seriously considering altering my diet, the results shown (in my mind) can't be argued with such as the massive drop in Cholesterol and clearer Plasma. Also 2500 cups of water to produce 1 burger, absolutely ridiculous.
A lot of it made sense to me, I laughed at the power lifter being asked how he is as strong as an Ox without eating meat, "Ox's don't eat meat" was his response. Protein in meat comes from the food that the animal eats so why use a "middle man" when you can take it from source?
Edited by eybic on Monday 18th November 09:05
Edited by eybic on Monday 18th November 09:53
El stovey said:
The b12 thing was debunked years ago.
Really? I’m pretty sure B12 deficiency is realhttps://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folat...
Me and my wife watched this about a month ago and decided to alter our diet on the back of it. We're not going full vegan and for us it's not a massive change to our diets as we didn't eat loads of meat (mainly chicken) anyway. We've found the meat alternatives to be just as nice and with good seasoning, herbs and spices our meals are perfectly tasty. I'd already changed from milk to coconut milk a long time ago and don't really eat cheese either but my wife has changed to oat milk (called Oaty) and she likes it just as much in tea as regular milk. We're still eating fish for the benefits of what that gives too.
I do a lot of running and haven't once felt like I have less energy or more tired than before, so we're going to stick with it and see what happens but as of now I don't see the point of going back to eating meat!
I do a lot of running and haven't once felt like I have less energy or more tired than before, so we're going to stick with it and see what happens but as of now I don't see the point of going back to eating meat!
grumbledoak said:
Really? I’m pretty sure B12 deficiency is real
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folat...
I'm sure the deficiency is real, but what I was referring to was the fact that we need meat for B12. Especially since farm animals are given a B12 supplement.https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folat...
I found this link on the health section of PH. The show made it sound like unless you eat vegan your going to die soon, and funny enough while watching it I really wanted some chicken wings.
None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
grumbledoak said:
El stovey said:
The b12 thing was debunked years ago.
Really? I’m pretty sure B12 deficiency is realhttps://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folat...
EmilA said:
I found this link on the health section of PH. The show made it sound like unless you eat vegan your going to die soon, and funny enough while watching it I really wanted some chicken wings.
None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
The Netflix doc didn't come across with that point of view to me, it was just highlighting that so many of the myths surrounding a Vegan diet are incorrect, I don't think that anyone (vegan or not) can argue that meat production is indeed "killing the world" can they?None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
eybic said:
EmilA said:
I found this link on the health section of PH. The show made it sound like unless you eat vegan your going to die soon, and funny enough while watching it I really wanted some chicken wings.
None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
The Netflix doc didn't come across with that point of view to me, it was just highlighting that so many of the myths surrounding a Vegan diet are incorrect, I don't think that anyone (vegan or not) can argue that meat production is indeed "killing the world" can they?None the less, it was an interesting thing to watch and it made me consider altering my diet, however reading the article below which seems to be much more credible and scientifically correct compared to the Netflix film, it makes you think how much of it was recorded/edited to put across the point that unless your vegan your killing yourself and the world?
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-gam...
I’ve moved to a more plant based diet over the years and feeling better for it. Results show in my training and medical examinations. I’m not a full on vegan or even veggie.
I think the trouble is people are a bit polarised about this stuff. Netflix do a documentary and suddenly people are saying it’s vegan propaganda or whatever.
Any documentary with an obvious agenda (which this has) needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. That said, it’s still decent and thought provoking. I cut down my meat intake drastically years back and haven’t eaten any in over a year now, can’t say I’ve felt any difference to my energy levels etc. for better or for worse. However, I recently adopted a low-carb diet and that has actually made me feel, in general, fantastic. Most significant change for me is I get a much better sleep when previously I had a real struggle sleeping almost every night. Off topic slightly, sorry.
horsemeatscandal said:
Any documentary with an obvious agenda (which this has) needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. That said, it’s still decent and thought provoking. I cut down my meat intake drastically years back and haven’t eaten any in over a year now, can’t say I’ve felt any difference to my energy levels etc. for better or for worse. However, I recently adopted a low-carb diet and that has actually made me feel, in general, fantastic. Most significant change for me is I get a much better sleep when previously I had a real struggle sleeping almost every night. Off topic slightly, sorry.
You’re vegetarian AND low carb? I couldn’t do that, I don’t think. 
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