White House Farm murders - ITV series
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
youngsyr said:
The fact that Welshbeef is citing a lack of DNA evidence as being the second most important element of doubt in a case from 1985 tells you all you need to know: he has no idea what he's talking about.
You misreadHe was only arrested due to 2 things
1. Jilted x change of statement
2. The silencer found by a cousin who then took it home to decide what to do with it for a few days.
Before that it was a murder suicide
What DNA is these that implicated Jeremy Bamber?
It was 1985.
youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
youngsyr said:
The fact that Welshbeef is citing a lack of DNA evidence as being the second most important element of doubt in a case from 1985 tells you all you need to know: he has no idea what he's talking about.
You misreadHe was only arrested due to 2 things
1. Jilted x change of statement
2. The silencer found by a cousin who then took it home to decide what to do with it for a few days.
Before that it was a murder suicide
What DNA is these that implicated Jeremy Bamber?
It was 1985.
It’s then who do you believe - Jeremy stating she did it and the prosecution stating he did it. Nothing is 100% and never will be.
youngsyr said:
Farm workers and cousins are not persons unknown, which is whom that expulcating evidence is aimed at.
For cousins and workers:
The house was locked up from the inside.
Jeremy claims Nevill phoned him and told him it was Sheila.
And you're assuming that the cousins and workers had access to keys and no alibis. I know the police botched the investigation, but that would be a serious miscarriage of justice to overlook if they didn't.
It's telling that Jeremy has never claimed it was the cousins or a worker.
He is adamant it was Sheila.
Further, for cousins specifically:
Why kill everyone in the will ahead of them, except Jeremy? Especially when Jeremy was in the same house with them all just a few hours earlier. It doesn't make any sense.
I’ve given some reasonable suggestions why Jeremy only wanted to implicate Sheila, and once he did that he had to stick to it - tactical error as I said.For cousins and workers:
The house was locked up from the inside.
Jeremy claims Nevill phoned him and told him it was Sheila.
And you're assuming that the cousins and workers had access to keys and no alibis. I know the police botched the investigation, but that would be a serious miscarriage of justice to overlook if they didn't.
It's telling that Jeremy has never claimed it was the cousins or a worker.
He is adamant it was Sheila.
Further, for cousins specifically:
Why kill everyone in the will ahead of them, except Jeremy? Especially when Jeremy was in the same house with them all just a few hours earlier. It doesn't make any sense.
Edited by youngsyr on Friday 11th February 11:33
How closely was any of the above looked at by the police? How closely did they check whether the farm workers either had keys or knew about the window (obviously they didn’t ask about the window because that was established much later).
Did the police have anything like a full picture of comings and goings at the farm? Very doubtful. When you look at the position of the big sheds right next to the house, and it being harvest time, must have been a busy area.
So many doubts.
Largechris said:
I’ve given some reasonable suggestions why Jeremy only wanted to implicate Sheila, and once he did that he had to stick to it - tactical error as I said.
How closely was any of the above looked at by the police? How closely did they check whether the farm workers either had keys or knew about the window (obviously they didn’t ask about the window because that was established much later).
Did the police have anything like a full picture of comings and goings at the farm? Very doubtful. When you look at the position of the big sheds right next to the house, and it being harvest time, must have been a busy area.
So many doubts.
Good point harvest time. How closely was any of the above looked at by the police? How closely did they check whether the farm workers either had keys or knew about the window (obviously they didn’t ask about the window because that was established much later).
Did the police have anything like a full picture of comings and goings at the farm? Very doubtful. When you look at the position of the big sheds right next to the house, and it being harvest time, must have been a busy area.
So many doubts.
Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
Largechris said:
youngsyr said:
Farm workers and cousins are not persons unknown, which is whom that expulcating evidence is aimed at.
For cousins and workers:
The house was locked up from the inside.
Jeremy claims Nevill phoned him and told him it was Sheila.
And you're assuming that the cousins and workers had access to keys and no alibis. I know the police botched the investigation, but that would be a serious miscarriage of justice to overlook if they didn't.
It's telling that Jeremy has never claimed it was the cousins or a worker.
He is adamant it was Sheila.
Further, for cousins specifically:
Why kill everyone in the will ahead of them, except Jeremy? Especially when Jeremy was in the same house with them all just a few hours earlier. It doesn't make any sense.
I’ve given some reasonable suggestions why Jeremy only wanted to implicate Sheila, and once he did that he had to stick to it - tactical error as I said.For cousins and workers:
The house was locked up from the inside.
Jeremy claims Nevill phoned him and told him it was Sheila.
And you're assuming that the cousins and workers had access to keys and no alibis. I know the police botched the investigation, but that would be a serious miscarriage of justice to overlook if they didn't.
It's telling that Jeremy has never claimed it was the cousins or a worker.
He is adamant it was Sheila.
Further, for cousins specifically:
Why kill everyone in the will ahead of them, except Jeremy? Especially when Jeremy was in the same house with them all just a few hours earlier. It doesn't make any sense.
Edited by youngsyr on Friday 11th February 11:33
How closely was any of the above looked at by the police? How closely did they check whether the farm workers either had keys or knew about the window (obviously they didn’t ask about the window because that was established much later).
Did the police have anything like a full picture of comings and goings at the farm? Very doubtful. When you look at the position of the big sheds right next to the house, and it being harvest time, must have been a busy area.
So many doubts.
You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
youngsyr said:
So many unsubstantiated assumptions, you mean?
You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
Well the unsubstantiated view is that Jeremy B placed the silencer where it was found. You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
How can that be proved?
Welshbeef said:
youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
Good point harvest time.
Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
Genuine question: what's your highest level of education achieved?Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
Still not the stupidest question you've asked on this thread.
Welshbeef said:
youngsyr said:
So many unsubstantiated assumptions, you mean?
You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
Well the unsubstantiated view is that Jeremy B placed the silencer where it was found. You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
How can that be proved?
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
Welshbeef said:
Good point harvest time.
Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
"Yes your honour, in the course of this appeal the defence will clearly demonstrate the innocence of the defendant. Exhibit one; I refer the court to the television in the corner whereby clear evidence of the defendant's innocence will be referred to via the media of YouTube and a rolling blog of running a farm by one H Metcalfe. Here we can clearly see that farms do indeed operate outside of daylight hours and we request the defendant's immediate release.Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
If we have time before that, if the court wishes, then we will look into the costs of an engine rebuild on a Lamborghini Espada"
youngsyr said:
So many unsubstantiated assumptions, you mean?
You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
I’m not basing my questions on a dramatisation. White House Farm is a few miles from me and I’ve followed the case closely since it happened, surprised it hasn’t been dramatised before actually. You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
And all the examples of UK miscarriages of justice I’ve given you are strikingly similar in the assumptions and mistakes that police, CPS, barristers and juries have made, and continue to make.
Funnily enough you laughed at the DNA comment from someone else, but a few months after the White House Farm murders the police arrested a teenager with learning difficulties for the murders that Colin Pitchfork was eventually convicted of. If you read into that case detectives thought they had their man until DNA cleared him. Miscarriage of justice narrowly avoided.
Largechris said:
youngsyr said:
So many unsubstantiated assumptions, you mean?
You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
I’m not basing my questions on a dramatisation. White House Farm is a few miles from me and I’ve followed the case closely since it happened, surprised it hasn’t been dramatised before actually. You're assuming that Jeremy somehow knew that the, unknown to him, killers were intending to stage the scene as a murder/suicide, with Sheila as the killer. He couldn't possible have known that before making the call to the Police, from his house 3 miles away, supposedly just minutes after the murders had been committed, by someone else.
You're also assuming that the Police, CPS, defence barristers, Jeremy Bamber, trial judge and multiple appeals judges have not thought that maybe a farm worker could have committed the murders.
I'll keep saying it: in this case there is no smoking gun. If you look at any piece of evidence in isolation, it doesn't prove anything. You need to have a good grasp of the entire case to get to the point where it is clear that Jeremy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you're only going to ask questions on a forum to fill in your limited knowledge from a dramatisation, you're not going to agree that he is definitely guilty. But you're wrong.
And all the examples of UK miscarriages of justice I’ve given you are strikingly similar in the assumptions and mistakes that police, CPS, barristers and juries have made, and continue to make.
Funnily enough you laughed at the DNA comment from someone else, but a few months after the White House Farm murders the police arrested a teenager with learning difficulties for the murders that Colin Pitchfork was eventually convicted of. If you read into that case detectives thought they had their man until DNA cleared him. Miscarriage of justice narrowly avoided.
Amd I laughed about a certain poster's repeated requests for incriminating DNA evidence precisely because the first time DNA profiling was used in a criminal case in the UK was a year after this case!
Welshbeef said:
Muzzer79 said:
Welshbeef said:
Good point harvest time.
Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
"Yes your honour, in the course of this appeal the defence will clearly demonstrate the innocence of the defendant. Exhibit one; I refer the court to the television in the corner whereby clear evidence of the defendant's innocence will be referred to via the media of YouTube and a rolling blog of running a farm by one H Metcalfe. Here we can clearly see that farms do indeed operate outside of daylight hours and we request the defendant's immediate release.Lots of very late working or overnight - as we see from HARRYS FARM on YouTube.
If we have time before that, if the court wishes, then we will look into the costs of an engine rebuild on a Lamborghini Espada"
Why are you doing this? It’s strange but if it gets your bird buzzing good for you. Don’t be a soppy cat bull normal behave normally
Why do you type in jibberish?
Does a doctor prescribe your drugs or do you just run free and score off the street?
Muzzer79 said:
What other username?!
Why do you type in jibberish?
Does a doctor prescribe your drugs or do you just run free and score off the street?
You are incorrigible and truly a vile poster. Why do you type in jibberish?
Does a doctor prescribe your drugs or do you just run free and score off the street?
I’ve read and keep seeing such vile posting to other user names I suggest you stop and take a hard look at yourself it’s not a very nice trait.
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