LOKI - Marvel's best TV Series To Date?
Discussion
Antony Moxey said:
Cheers for that Spud. I'm generally rubbish at working out what's supposed to be happening so to have someone explain it properly is most appreciated. 
A few things were left unexplained, but I’m ok with that. I’m not entirely sure how the change from a ‘sacred time line’ to the Asgardian ‘world tree’ fixes things. Will need some thought. It was a beautiful finale so I’ll forgive it. I think the character story telling was sound, and until the very end the timey-wimey stuff made sense.
robemcdonald said:
Kudos to Marvel for retconning Jonathan Majors out at the end though.
They haven't.....At the end back in the TVA, they mention the TVAs new role is to keep an eye on all the Kang variants. They say that so far they're "unaware" of the TVA. So Kang is very much still out there and the "Big Bad" of the MCU. Given the fact there are so many variants and always has been for Kang they've always had a way of letting Majors go if they want to. They'd just get a different actor to play Kang as a different variant (like Sylvie in Loki).
highway said:
There is no character arc. Thanks to poor writing. He moves from being evil and wanting to rule Midgard, to wanting to save everyone. Leave off, with your lazy writing and sloppy plodding.
Eh? Are you serious? He's had 7 films and 2 whole seasons of Loki, I don't see how you can realistically say he's had no arc? He's had arguably the best arc of any character in the MCU. It was established waaaaaay back in his first appearance that he thought his "glorious purpose" was to rule over others by subjugating them. He spent a long time trying this in different ways, always feeling he was owed something like he'd had a harder life than others for various reasons.
The Loki in the TV show isn't the same Loki we saw in Ragnorok/Infinity war who ultimately died to try and save Thor and never found his purpose. This Loki is the one from the end of Avengers who escaped and was then caught by the TVA. So you then get the last two seasons which showed a similar journey for Loki except without his brother. Through both seasons he learned through the people around him that his purpose was to give others the chance at life. So, much like in Infinity War he gives up his life (although in a different way here) to save not just his friends but the multiverse. He finds his purpose, which leads him to rule over others (indicated by the throne and crown) by becoming the God of stories.
It's a story that was covered in the comics, personally, I think it was very well done and I thoroughly enjoyed it. A little bittersweet as we don't know if he'll play the character again now but I hope he does and I hope we get him back in Secret Wars or Kang Dynasty as he'd have a big part to play in those.
Always enjoyed the aesthetic of Loki and the TVA. Enjoyed S2 more than S1 and always enjoy seeing Owen Wilson.
I did have to dig out a "what the hell is going on" youtube video to explain the ending, but now I have I guess it makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7G6MykBBdI
In short, he's destroyed the machine weaving the time lines together, the "one who remains" has gone and now Loki is effectively the "one who remains" as he took all the different timelines (The Multiverse) and now keeps them alive. According to the video they've gone for some lesser known comic book where Atlez, "Custodian of the Multiverse", appears and is doing exactly as is depicted in Loki.
I did have to dig out a "what the hell is going on" youtube video to explain the ending, but now I have I guess it makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7G6MykBBdI
In short, he's destroyed the machine weaving the time lines together, the "one who remains" has gone and now Loki is effectively the "one who remains" as he took all the different timelines (The Multiverse) and now keeps them alive. According to the video they've gone for some lesser known comic book where Atlez, "Custodian of the Multiverse", appears and is doing exactly as is depicted in Loki.
I'd prefer this to be the last appearance of Loki.
I have loved every minute of his performance in the role. But this can't be bettered as an end for the character.
End on a high. Leave the stage. The fans will always remember how great you were.
Don't hang around fading until they are glad to see the back of you.
I have loved every minute of his performance in the role. But this can't be bettered as an end for the character.
End on a high. Leave the stage. The fans will always remember how great you were.
Don't hang around fading until they are glad to see the back of you.
C5_Steve said:
robemcdonald said:
Kudos to Marvel for retconning Jonathan Majors out at the end though.
They haven't.....At the end back in the TVA, they mention the TVAs new role is to keep an eye on all the Kang variants. They say that so far they're "unaware" of the TVA. So Kang is very much still out there and the "Big Bad" of the MCU. Given the fact there are so many variants and always has been for Kang they've always had a way of letting Majors go if they want to. They'd just get a different actor to play Kang as a different variant (like Sylvie in Loki).
robemcdonald said:
Which was exactly my point they have replaced him with Ravonna.
Nah they haven't, I think you've misunderstood the ending (or I'm misunderstanding what you mean?)Ravonna doesn't replace Kang, she got pruned and sent to the Void. In the final scene we see her meet Alioth so she might be dead or she might come back later in Secret Wars as she did previously help a Kang variant in the multiversal wars. She's not replaced him at all though just by being in the void, Loki effectively replaces Kang at the end of time by becoming the God of Stories and literally growing the branches rather than pruning them. Kang is still out and about in all his variant forms but the He who Remains variant is done
C5_Steve said:
Eh? Are you serious? He's had 7 films and 2 whole seasons of Loki, I don't see how you can realistically say he's had no arc? He's had arguably the best arc of any character in the MCU.
It was established waaaaaay back in his first appearance that he thought his "glorious purpose" was to rule over others by subjugating them. He spent a long time trying this in different ways, always feeling he was owed something like he'd had a harder life than others for various reasons.
The Loki in the TV show isn't the same Loki we saw in Ragnorok/Infinity war who ultimately died to try and save Thor and never found his purpose. This Loki is the one from the end of Avengers who escaped and was then caught by the TVA. So you then get the last two seasons which showed a similar journey for Loki except without his brother. Through both seasons he learned through the people around him that his purpose was to give others the chance at life. So, much like in Infinity War he gives up his life (although in a different way here) to save not just his friends but the multiverse. He finds his purpose, which leads him to rule over others (indicated by the throne and crown) by becoming the God of stories.
It's a story that was covered in the comics, personally, I think it was very well done and I thoroughly enjoyed it. A little bittersweet as we don't know if he'll play the character again now but I hope he does and I hope we get him back in Secret Wars or Kang Dynasty as he'd have a big part to play in those.
Glad you enjoyed it. For me, another poor Disney show that I wouldn’t bother with, as all of them have been poor from the jump. I have the app for free but after the turgid secret invasion, I wasn’t expecting much here. And it delivered as expected. The Loki character we see here with his ‘friends’ and whatever else is so far removed from the Loki we started with, that effectively the character is Loki in name only. He is the God of Mischief. As you say, not the Loki who died trying to save Thor. The asshat Loki from Avengers, who had a deal with Thanos. It was established waaaaaay back in his first appearance that he thought his "glorious purpose" was to rule over others by subjugating them. He spent a long time trying this in different ways, always feeling he was owed something like he'd had a harder life than others for various reasons.
The Loki in the TV show isn't the same Loki we saw in Ragnorok/Infinity war who ultimately died to try and save Thor and never found his purpose. This Loki is the one from the end of Avengers who escaped and was then caught by the TVA. So you then get the last two seasons which showed a similar journey for Loki except without his brother. Through both seasons he learned through the people around him that his purpose was to give others the chance at life. So, much like in Infinity War he gives up his life (although in a different way here) to save not just his friends but the multiverse. He finds his purpose, which leads him to rule over others (indicated by the throne and crown) by becoming the God of stories.
It's a story that was covered in the comics, personally, I think it was very well done and I thoroughly enjoyed it. A little bittersweet as we don't know if he'll play the character again now but I hope he does and I hope we get him back in Secret Wars or Kang Dynasty as he'd have a big part to play in those.
It’s not the same character, no sense of power or malevolence. Just played like a sidekick to Owen Wilson. Who convincingly played Owen Wilson.
Who would ever seek to rewatch this?
C5_Steve said:
robemcdonald said:
Which was exactly my point they have replaced him with Ravonna.
Nah they haven't, I think you've misunderstood the ending (or I'm misunderstanding what you mean?)Ravonna doesn't replace Kang, she got pruned and sent to the Void. In the final scene we see her meet Alioth so she might be dead or she might come back later in Secret Wars as she did previously help a Kang variant in the multiversal wars. She's not replaced him at all though just by being in the void, Loki effectively replaces Kang at the end of time by becoming the God of Stories and literally growing the branches rather than pruning them. Kang is still out and about in all his variant forms but the He who Remains variant is done
Except...
In the comics Loki has become God of Stories. But what happens here is not what happens in the comics. This is more like God of Timelines.
This leads into the very nerdy argument that the MCU is not Earth 616. 616 is the main comic universe. The one where Thor was Donald Blake for years, where Peter Parker was best friends with Harry Osborn, where Mutants and the Fantastic Four exist.
Any universe which differs from this has to be a different number.
SpudLink said:
Agree with the interpretation.
Except...
In the comics Loki has become God of Stories. But what happens here is not what happens in the comics. This is more like God of Timelines.
This leads into the very nerdy argument that the MCU is not Earth 616. 616 is the main comic universe. The one where Thor was Donald Blake for years, where Peter Parker was best friends with Harry Osborn, where Mutants and the Fantastic Four exist.
Any universe which differs from this has to be a different number.
Yeah I'm familiar with the argument the MCU isn't 616, except they've confirmed it is 616 in a few different films/mentions now. Just not the same 616 as the comics, I think they've done it to identify it as the "prime" universe. Except...
In the comics Loki has become God of Stories. But what happens here is not what happens in the comics. This is more like God of Timelines.
This leads into the very nerdy argument that the MCU is not Earth 616. 616 is the main comic universe. The one where Thor was Donald Blake for years, where Peter Parker was best friends with Harry Osborn, where Mutants and the Fantastic Four exist.
Any universe which differs from this has to be a different number.
highway said:
Glad you enjoyed it. For me, another poor Disney show that I wouldn’t bother with, as all of them have been poor from the jump. I have the app for free but after the turgid secret invasion, I wasn’t expecting much here. And it delivered as expected. The Loki character we see here with his ‘friends’ and whatever else is so far removed from the Loki we started with, that effectively the character is Loki in name only. He is the God of Mischief. As you say, not the Loki who died trying to save Thor. The asshat Loki from Avengers, who had a deal with Thanos.
It’s not the same character, no sense of power or malevolence. Just played like a sidekick to Owen Wilson. Who convincingly played Owen Wilson.
Who would ever seek to rewatch this?
Appreciate you don't like what they've done with the character but he does clearly have a very specific, well crafted and traceable arc right back to his first appearance. It’s not the same character, no sense of power or malevolence. Just played like a sidekick to Owen Wilson. Who convincingly played Owen Wilson.
Who would ever seek to rewatch this?
Personally, I enjoyed him the most when he was halfway between good and evil. He was certainly the most fun as a character then and it is a little bittersweet that he ends up alone at the end I agree.
C5_Steve said:
Appreciate you don't like what they've done with the character but he does clearly have a very specific, well crafted and traceable arc right back to his first appearance.
Personally, I enjoyed him the most when he was halfway between good and evil. He was certainly the most fun as a character then and it is a little bittersweet that he ends up alone at the end I agree.
He thought it was his right as a god to rule, worshipped by mortals. He ends up accepting his duty as a god to sit alone in service of mortals who will never know what he’s done for them. The burden of his glorious purpose. Personally, I enjoyed him the most when he was halfway between good and evil. He was certainly the most fun as a character then and it is a little bittersweet that he ends up alone at the end I agree.
I think it’s a brilliant arc.
My only gripe about the finale in retrospect is that Loki didn't spend any time saying goodbye to anyone, including Mobius, etc 
When it came to it he just did his superhero walk thing, which was cinematic but kinda sad because from their perspective he just disappeared from their lives.
When it came to it he just did his superhero walk thing, which was cinematic but kinda sad because from their perspective he just disappeared from their lives.BlackWidow13 said:
That’s exactly what a character arc is.
Arc wasn’t earned. There was no transition.It was Loki in name only. May as well have told
The same story but inserted Balder, Heimdall or any other character you recognise.
They took a character we knew but bent him completely out of shape. That’s not an arc. It’s lazy writing
highway said:
Arc wasn’t earned. There was no transition.
It was Loki in name only. May as well have told
The same story but inserted Balder, Heimdall or any other character you recognise.
They took a character we knew but bent him completely out of shape. That’s not an arc. It’s lazy writing
Wrong. It’s an arc. It was Loki in name only. May as well have told
The same story but inserted Balder, Heimdall or any other character you recognise.
They took a character we knew but bent him completely out of shape. That’s not an arc. It’s lazy writing
It just so happens to be an arc you don’t like, in a series you don’t like, which is one of a selection of series and films you don’t like.
I honestly don’t know why you bother posting in these threads any more. You’ve posted the same thing about everything since IW. It’s really tedious. Especially now you’re struggling to make up cogent criticisms.
HAND.
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