The Gold, Sunday eve

[youngsyr]

Legacywr said:

Doofus said:

Coxey said:

The Gangster podcast is worth a listen the one about John Palmer…

He was a properly nasty piece of work.

Where can an old fart find this?

Kenny Noye is a very fascinating character, so few photos of him around?

His wiki article fills in some big holes in the programme. Noye was a high level informant even before the robbery. That is why he had protection from the "bent" police officers.

[essexplumber]

I’m bloody sure Noye played a part in the Range Rover murders too.

Finished the series last night, enjoyable but the guy who played Noye wasn’t menacing enough.

[biggbn]

Watched first episode, really enjoyed it, Bonneville plays his part very well!!

[biggbn]

youngsyr said:

Alickadoo said:

youngsyr said:

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the very prominent social commentary that was at the forefront of this series - it felt less like a retelling of the robbery and more a commentary on the class system.

I found that very interesting, but only have my limited personal view to go by, so it would be interesting to hear other people's opinions.

Was the "establishment" really that strong in the 80s, or even now, protecting the wealthy families and keeping the nouveau riche out?

Were there really "two systems" at play in the police forece - a small number of straight police officers and the vast majority (including an entire force - Kent) that was to one degree or another bent?

This was the dramatised version of the factual story.

We simply don't know how much was fact and how much was fiction. Those speeches from the dock/witness box? How much of that was script writer's licence?

That's not my point. My pint is that the producers clearly wanted to go very heavy on the social commentary aspect and I wondered what people thought about it?

Not a surprise, and things ain't much different now are they?

[Randy Winkman]

essexplumber said:

I’m bloody sure Noye played a part in the Range Rover murders too.

Finished the series last night, enjoyable but the guy who played Noye wasn’t menacing enough.

I agree - he isn't really. Just looks a bit young and small.

But the other side of that is that it definitely hasn't glamourized him in any way. He just looks like a crook with a big house from what I've seen in the first 4 episodes.

I can definitely relate to why he was found not guilty of murder in the garden stabbing but I wonder what the jury thought about it all with hindsight?

[standards]

The character played by Sean Gilder is listed on the cast list as a DI.
He’s wearing a Chief Constable/Assistant Commissioner uniform.
Is it just me?

Enjoyed the series though.

Edited by standards on Saturday 18th February 22:45

Edited by standards on Saturday 18th February 22:59

[essexplumber]

Randy Winkman said:

I agree - he isn't really. Just looks a bit young and small.

But the other side of that is that it definitely hasn't glamourized him in any way. He just looks like a crook with a big house from what I've seen in the first 4 episodes.

I can definitely relate to why he was found not guilty of murder in the garden stabbing but I wonder what the jury thought about it all with hindsight?

I think they showed him in his true light just enough to not portray him as a loveable rogue.

And yes if I was in the criminal world and a balaclava’d man jumped out of a bush I think I’d reasonably fear for my life too.

[Golfgtimk28v]

I enjoyed it, I binged the whole lot.

Can we do spoliers yet?

Brought back memories, I used to go poaching with my dad, he was from a very rough estate in Birmingham, he also ended up in prison after being a professional, chartered accountant, doing bad things.

Reminded very much of that laywer bloke.

I did find the us and them very weird Kenny was a proper badun, simples.

[Jim H]

essexplumber said:

I’m bloody sure Noye played a part in the Range Rover murders too.

Finished the series last night, enjoyable but the guy who played Noye wasn’t menacing enough.

I think? Noye served time with Tate in Swaleside and there were some tenuous allegations the pair were in a a deal where money went missing or something - when they were both released. This is what I’ve understood from reading books covering the Rettendon murders.

Not a bad series, I thought the last episode was a bit cluttered, the muttering and mumbling was shocking throughout. But I tend to expect this more.often with TV and film unfortunately.


For further reading: The Curse of Brinks May -25 years of Murder and Mayhem - Wensley Clarkson.

Death Warrant - Will Pearson are both worth a read
I thought Hugh Bonnevile was excellent

[Randy Winkman]

Perhaps it's just my age but I struggle to hear lots on TV even though in real life, I don't have problems at all. Worst is TV comedy panel shows where utterly hilarious things seem to happen and even after repeating 2-3 times Is still have no idea what was said. I guess that editors just cant resist putting such things in the show even though those watching on TV wont have a clue what was funny.

On spoilers (post higher up), it's obviously not for me to decide, but for TV shows based on historical events (I call 40 years ago historical) people should be able to say pretty much what they like. Possibly with some specific provisos that are more about how the TV series unfolds rather than the actual events. Hence I mentioned Noye being not-guilty in the stabbing case.

[Golfgtimk28v]

Ok what happened to the other 4 and the rest of the gold, it was like a oh we only know half the job, bit frustrating really.

[F8Spiderman]

Golfgtimk28v said:

Ok what happened to the other 4 and the rest of the gold, it was like a oh we only know half the job, bit frustrating really.

Saved for Series 2 set further down the line? Certainly felt like there is more to come if the producers wanted it.

[Randy Winkman]

Perhaps there is stuff they've left out for a series 2 but with regards the gold, as far as I'm aware, a lot simply isn't known. Other than by whoever put it there anyway. And possibly, lots of people who put it into places are now dead.

[Alickadoo]

And, just possibly, people who are keeping their mouths firmly shut.

[surveyor]

Randy Winkman said:

Perhaps it's just my age but I struggle to hear lots on TV even though in real life, I don't have problems at all. Worst is TV comedy panel shows where utterly hilarious things seem to happen and even after repeating 2-3 times Is still have no idea what was said. I guess that editors just cant resist putting such things in the show even though those watching on TV wont have a clue what was funny.

On spoilers (post higher up), it's obviously not for me to decide, but for TV shows based on historical events (I call 40 years ago historical) people should be able to say pretty much what they like. Possibly with some specific provisos that are more about how the TV series unfolds rather than the actual events. Hence I mentioned Noye being not-guilty in the stabbing case.

A sound bar was revolutionary for my parents and in-laws

[youngsyr]

essexplumber said:

Randy Winkman said:

I agree - he isn't really. Just looks a bit young and small.

But the other side of that is that it definitely hasn't glamourized him in any way. He just looks like a crook with a big house from what I've seen in the first 4 episodes.

I can definitely relate to why he was found not guilty of murder in the garden stabbing but I wonder what the jury thought about it all with hindsight?

I think they showed him in his true light just enough to not portray him as a loveable rogue.

And yes if I was in the criminal world and a balaclava’d man jumped out of a bush I think I’d reasonably fear for my life too.

IMO, Noye got away with it because there were no witnesses but him.

I highly doubt a surveillance officer attacked him - his partner says they were retreating towards the fence, so self defence doesn't come into it. Didn't he say the officer punched him in the face - no bruises or any defence wounds were shown?

His later murder conviction also adds weight to the fact that he was a nasty bd who would happily kill you if you crossed him.

[Jim H]

I think the facts stack up very well about some of the players in this game.

Mr Noye for example was in my own opinion a genius criminal . Yet he’s spent decades of his life incarcerated in prison due to his volcanic temper.

Palmer obviously thought he was smarter than most, but actually he wasn’t .

[Halmyre]

Noye apparently was fairly happy with his portrayal which suggests a bit of economic fiddling with the truth.

[Golfgtimk28v]

Halmyre said:

Noye apparently was fairly happy with his portrayal which suggests a bit of economic fiddling with the truth.

The more I think about it, I think he was high up.

Bear with me, I'm a big fan of Rise of the Footsoldier,

Tate allegedly loaned money off him, this would make sense, he was behind the Rettendon killings. If you watch layercake the bloke in that is very similar (may even be based on him), being a police informer, which paid very well.

There was a case of American Express giving the police a million to stop Travelers Cheques fraud, the million was used to buy equipment to forge the Travelers Cheques by the informers.

Informers used the police to get rid of rivals.

He hasn't been killed whilst inside or out, and everyone seems to under estimate him. The BBC portrayed him and the Palmer as not really bad guys, which doesn't really reflect the reality.

The police clearly helped criminals, and probably still do, the world of police informers is massively murky and dirty on both sides.

Edited by Golfgtimk28v on Sunday 19th February 21:26

[Doofus]

Golfgtimk28v said:

Tate allegedly loaned money off him

I'm not trying to be a dick, but do you mean "Borrowed money from" or "Loaned money to"?