Mr Bates vs The Post Office

[Mercdriver]

How about the proceeds of crime act to recover the money fraudulently obtained from the PO managers?

Shame on judicial system if they are not charged, surely it is too high a profile in the publics eye to be glossed over and the usual lessons have been learned crap is forthcoming?

[Fastpedeller]

Boringvolvodriver said:

I came across this gem

“Former Post Office managing director Alan Cook at that point said to her in an email:

My instincts tell that in a recession subbies with their hand in the till choose to blame technology when they are found to be short of cash.
He tells the inquiry “it’s an expression I will regret for the rest of my life. It was an inappropriate thing to put in an email and not in line with my view of subpostmasters.””

If it wasn’t what he thought, then why the hell put it in an email then?

Another one who should be held responsible but won’t be - already passed the buck to Vennells and I shall be amazed if she gives evidence - she will certainly have to have the self incrimination warning!

Hmm - he thought they had their fingers in the till, but he knew nothing of the prosecutions taking place......... Yeah Right, we believe you!

[CoolHands]

Think about it, what did these muppets add that warranted £10m pay packets. He sounds like a manager of an estate agent ie not skilled at all. Smegging disgraceful

[FiF]

Fastpedeller said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

I came across this gem

“Former Post Office managing director Alan Cook at that point said to her in an email:

My instincts tell that in a recession subbies with their hand in the till choose to blame technology when they are found to be short of cash.
He tells the inquiry “it’s an expression I will regret for the rest of my life. It was an inappropriate thing to put in an email and not in line with my view of subpostmasters.””

If it wasn’t what he thought, then why the hell put it in an email then?

Another one who should be held responsible but won’t be - already passed the buck to Vennells and I shall be amazed if she gives evidence - she will certainly have to have the self incrimination warning!

Hmm - he thought they had their fingers in the till, but he knew nothing of the prosecutions taking place......... Yeah Right, we believe you!

And that is a very pertinent observation.

In a way I'm increasingly reminded of that scene from Band of Brothers, where Easy Company has just encountered for their first time a Nazi concentration camp. Someone goes to the local baker to commandeer bread to feed the prisoners, the baker objects and denies all knowledge of the camp, purpose and existence.

To which the angry response is "But can't you smell it?"

[FiF]

Alan Bates is now saying that if the inquiry fails sub postmasters he is certain he will be able to raise the funds to pursue private prosecutions if necessary.

How deliciously ironic. Go to it, make the buggers sweat.

[Bonefish Blues]

Current day folk hero is Mr Bates.

[SydneyBridge]

"It was fine when the Post Office brought private prosecutions, so if we've got to do it in return so be it", he said.

Superb..

[Stussy]

Now that is fighting talk

[Dermot O'Logical]

I'm looking forward to watching Angela Van Den Bogerd and Paula Vennells put under scrutiny::

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/phase-...

Will they stand together and back each other up, or throw each other under a bus?

Some of the emails will make interesting reading, that's for sure. Unless they were using WhatsApp, and the messages have mysteriously disappeared. This can happen, as we have learned recently.

There must be an air of anxiety at Fujitsu at the moment, as well.

[andyA700]

SydneyBridge said:

Who will Vennells pass the buck to....

She has so much brass neck, I fully expect her eyes to look heavenwards.

[Jimbo.]

FiF said:

Alan Bates is now saying that if the inquiry fails sub postmasters he is certain he will be able to raise the funds to pursue private prosecutions if necessary.

How deliciously ironic. Go to it, make the buggers sweat.

I suspect there’ll be no shortage of donations!

[Boringvolvodriver]

Jimbo. said:

FiF said:

Alan Bates is now saying that if the inquiry fails sub postmasters he is certain he will be able to raise the funds to pursue private prosecutions if necessary.

How deliciously ironic. Go to it, make the buggers sweat.

I suspect there’ll be no shortage of donations!

I would be prepared to throw a few quid into the pot to ensure that happened

[kevinon]

Jimbo. said:

FiF said:

Alan Bates is now saying that if the inquiry fails sub postmasters he is certain he will be able to raise the funds to pursue private prosecutions if necessary.

How deliciously ironic. Go to it, make the buggers sweat.

I suspect there’ll be no shortage of donations!

Wow, this could become like a modern day fable if he gains the power to treat the persecutors like they treated him.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Dermot O'Logical said:

I'm looking forward to watching Angela Van Den Bogerd and Paula Vennells put under scrutiny::

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/phase-...

Will they stand together and back each other up, or throw each other under a bus?

Some of the emails will make interesting reading, that's for sure. Unless they were using WhatsApp, and the messages have mysteriously disappeared. This can happen, as we have learned recently.

There must be an air of anxiety at Fujitsu at the moment, as well.

It will be a circular blame game and lots of “I can’t remember” - let’s hope that the evidence is all there- for all to see.

[vaud]

Dermot O'Logical said:

There must be an air of anxiety at Fujitsu at the moment, as well.

They have pulled out of Ireland, I repeat my prior view that they will pull out of the UK as well over time.

[PlywoodPascal]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Dermot O'Logical said:

I'm looking forward to watching Angela Van Den Bogerd and Paula Vennells put under scrutiny::

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/phase-...

Will they stand together and back each other up, or throw each other under a bus?

Some of the emails will make interesting reading, that's for sure. Unless they were using WhatsApp, and the messages have mysteriously disappeared. This can happen, as we have learned recently.

There must be an air of anxiety at Fujitsu at the moment, as well.

It will be a circular blame game and lots of “I can’t remember” - let’s hope that the evidence is all there- for all to see.

It’s possible they even forget who each other is I suppose,

[Super Sonic]

If people in this enquiry are under oath, does this mean if they lie they are committing perjury?

[hidetheelephants]

vaud said:

Dermot O'Logical said:

There must be an air of anxiety at Fujitsu at the moment, as well.

They have pulled out of Ireland, I repeat my prior view that they will pull out of the UK as well over time.

Wouldn't they be more likely to sell UK ops or rebrand? Bye bye Arthur Andersen, hello Accenture. Corporations like this have an absurd hold over govt IT contracts despite being remarkably mediocre or often just incompetent; the way IT is contracted seems to imbue far too much advantage to incumbents.

[vaud]

hidetheelephants said:

Wouldn't they be more likely to sell UK ops or rebrand? Bye bye Arthur Andersen, hello Accenture. Corporations like this have an absurd hold over govt IT contracts despite being remarkably mediocre or often just incompetent; the way IT is contracted seems to imbue far too much advantage to incumbents.

Accenture was formed from Andersen Consulting, not Arthur Andersen, the name inspired by an internal competition as "Accent on the future" by IIRC a Danish employee. The split between Andersen Consulting and Arthur Andersen goes further back.

As for quality of provider there is a range of capability; some good, some mediocre, some terrible - along with equal diversity from the govt departments in terms of negotiation and procurement skills. But it is generally not corrupt, despite some accusing the market of brown envelopes - at least not at the govt department level - there are too many people involved to make it corruptable.

Also there is a fundamental that in a relatively hot talent market, those with tech skills don't want to work for the civil service. Even where the govt has been creative and created arms length companies to allow them to pay market rate, they have not been successful. In a tight labour market the talent goes to those that can offer the right package (and it is more than just money) of experience, interesting projects and a range of clients to work with. Also the govt demands a certain scale and financial stability which narrows the pool of potential providers.

As for Fujitsu, I'm not sure how much the UK operations are worth, I haven't done a deep analysis, but a sale to a private equity would be possible, or a European player looking for a bigger UK footprint (someone like Sopra Steria) but I don't think it is worth much given the brand issues. A slow wind down would be possible.

[L1OFF]

kevinon said:

Jimbo. said:

FiF said:

Alan Bates is now saying that if the inquiry fails sub postmasters he is certain he will be able to raise the funds to pursue private prosecutions if necessary.

How deliciously ironic. Go to it, make the buggers sweat.

I suspect there’ll be no shortage of donations!

Wow, this could become like a modern day fable if he gains the power to treat the persecutors like they treated him.

Actually this is a very clever move, if you were the head of he CPS you would now be thinking if we dont prosecute a number of senior managers etc and the sub-postmaster take private criminal prosecutions (funded by an appeal, which I certainly would chuck a few bob into) and they get a conviction how bad does that reflect on the CPS?

Edited by L1OFF on Saturday 13th April 16:17