Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
dmsims said:
As has already been explained to you that is simply incorrect:
The actual contract states:
Yup. But some investigators pushed CharlesElliotts interpretationThe actual contract states:
CharlesElliott said:
The contract held them accountable for all losses by the SPM, and the losses of their staff under most conditions.
Bonefish Blues said:
CharlesElliott said:
vaud said:
So I wonder how many employees were investigated and went through disciplinary proceedings, and how many were reported to the police?
I haven't seen conclusive evidence that none were, but there has been evidence that defecits in Crown Offices were just written off and there was no legal action against the employee.After more than 900 prosecutions, around 580 sub-postmasters and Crown Office employees initiated civil proceedings against Post Office Ltd during which Post Office agreed to pay damages.
So yes, there were
732NM said:
I've only seen yesterday AM so far. The bloke is a t
t.
Having now seen the majority of his testimony, I'll now add t. to the list.The PO management and all senior departments need shutting down, a wholesale redundancy and bar on reapplying for any job in the organisation, it's entirely corrupt.
vaud said:
eliot said:
Rodrick comes across as “Am I the baddie?”
Rodrick comes across as a weasel. "I was a civil lawyer not a criminal lawyer so it was nothing to do with me"e600 said:
Sorry for being dim, how can I view past day’s proceedings?
Have a look at the official inquiry YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3Tm...CharlesElliott said:
Wills2 said:
The contract couldn't hold them accountable for "any" losses and this is the nub of the issue, they would not be liable for losses caused by the Horizon system as an example, hence the conspiracy to cover up the issues with Horizon so they could try and make them accountable via the theft charge/false accounting ruse.
The PO were sustaining losses via Horizon and in order to place the blame on the PMs they had to cover up the system issues and prosecute the PMs for theft, which they then in the vast majority of cases dropped to a charge of false accounting if the PM agreed that Horizon had nothing to do with the issues (that was a key pillar of their strategy), as the knew they couldn't take all the cases to court as the chances of getting caught out would rise.
It was a planned, targeted and criminal exploitation of the law.
The contract held them accountable for all losses by the SPM, and the losses of their staff under most conditions. I agree that if they counter claimed that the system did not work that would be appropriate - which is exactly what Lee Castleton did - but unfortunately, he lost his case in court.The PO were sustaining losses via Horizon and in order to place the blame on the PMs they had to cover up the system issues and prosecute the PMs for theft, which they then in the vast majority of cases dropped to a charge of false accounting if the PM agreed that Horizon had nothing to do with the issues (that was a key pillar of their strategy), as the knew they couldn't take all the cases to court as the chances of getting caught out would rise.
It was a planned, targeted and criminal exploitation of the law.
Wills2 said:
And that's entirely my point Horizon losses were not the liability of the SPM, hence the whole scandal we're debating, I presume you understand that the vast majority of the losses were fictional and not real, hence the suspense account shenanigans, the POL took hundreds of thousands from SPMs for losses that were fictional which they then dropped the bottom line.
Yes, I understand that, and I corrected a few posts ago my mistaken transposition of the contract terms between SPM and their staff.VanDriver99 said:
I worked on the Horizon Hotline.....If they had asked me I would have told them the system was faulty for nothing.
How much did your car insurance go up when you informed your insurance company that you had left Horizon/Fujitsu and were now a wood machinist? Or did you "overlook" that?
I was walking past a meat-processing plant in Wales recently, and I'm sure a van came out of the plant with "99" on the door...
Interesting story.
It's also telling that by standing up to the PO, Penny was able to avoid any sort of prosecution, although they still ruined her life.
People who came into being a Sub Post Master after having worked in the financial sector previously seemed to be in a much better position to be able to argue their case.
It's also telling that by standing up to the PO, Penny was able to avoid any sort of prosecution, although they still ruined her life.
People who came into being a Sub Post Master after having worked in the financial sector previously seemed to be in a much better position to be able to argue their case.
Angela van den Bogerd takes the stand for two days starting on Thursday, I hope it's firstly Beer asking the questions followed up by Stein.
I'm going to predict it's going to be an even more excruciating watch than Williams, as she sits there not hearing/misunderstanding/repeating/not recalling and denying when those tactics have failed.
I'm going to predict it's going to be an even more excruciating watch than Williams, as she sits there not hearing/misunderstanding/repeating/not recalling and denying when those tactics have failed.
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