Shogun, Disney
Discussion
Really enjoying this series and the Japanese leads are utterly fantastic. It's so well s
t as well.
I still can't get past Cosmo Jarvis' very hammy acting though. Comes across. ike a pound shop Tom Hardy. Although I feel a.bit harsh saying that - I think it's more that it just jars against the measured performances of the Japanese actors
t as well.I still can't get past Cosmo Jarvis' very hammy acting though. Comes across. ike a pound shop Tom Hardy. Although I feel a.bit harsh saying that - I think it's more that it just jars against the measured performances of the Japanese actors
popeyewhite said:
I'm finding it a bit dull. E9 was an improvement though. I appreciate the acting, sets, world-building etc but I don't remember the original sagging this much in the middle. As noted above, a long time ago though.
I think this is more faithful to the book. The original series, which I have as a box set, almost had a swashbuckling golden days of Holywood vibe, I liked it, but in retrospect it was like some colourful epic Burt Lancaster and Toshiro Mifune might have starred in. Shogun is essentially a Machievellian political novel, and that is coming across much more in this adaptation. 
I have really enjoyed this series - just watched the last episode. I was struck how despite the book being aimed at a Western reader, Blackthorne's story is largely incidental to the actual story. Richard Chamberlain's 1980 miniseries made more of Blackthorne's story yet (from what I've subsequently read) this 2024 version is more faithful to the source.
Great TV. Wonder if they'll try to make any of his follow-up books.
Great TV. Wonder if they'll try to make any of his follow-up books.
popeyewhite said:
Finished it, enjoyed it, was slightly bored in the end. I appreciate the political intrigue, but it just went on a bit for me.
Looked great, well acted, nowhere near enough story to sustain 10 hours of TV.As with you, I was bored for the last few episodes. I'm sure they could have cut the run time in half and lost little.
Just watched the final two episodes. What a brilliant series, and the last two installments really pulled the various story arcs together cohesively. There was a dreamlike quality to the last episode, which could easily have been portrayed via endless CGI battles, but wasn't.
Now to finish the book!
Now to finish the book!
Two plot points I remember from the book they left out or changed
Toranaga came across Ochiba doing the wild thing with a peasant, so suspects her son is illegitimate (and why she hates him)
The reason why the Heir doesn’t join Ishido’s forces isn’t because Ochiba changes her mind, but because she is informed by Mariko that if he comes to battle, Toranaga will make it an absolute priority to kill him
In real history, Tokugawa (Toranaga) killed the heir and his entire family about 15 years later, sieging Osaka castle, over a trumped up dispute over a temple dedication…
Toranaga came across Ochiba doing the wild thing with a peasant, so suspects her son is illegitimate (and why she hates him)
The reason why the Heir doesn’t join Ishido’s forces isn’t because Ochiba changes her mind, but because she is informed by Mariko that if he comes to battle, Toranaga will make it an absolute priority to kill him
In real history, Tokugawa (Toranaga) killed the heir and his entire family about 15 years later, sieging Osaka castle, over a trumped up dispute over a temple dedication…
Siko said:
10/10 for me I thought it was amazing. I get the point about the story being dragged out a bit, but I was awed by both the visual spectacle and the japanese culture shown, let alone the amazing story. Off to buy the book now.
Agreed. One particular comment on Reddit which stood out was: You know the world building is good when it's considered romantic to be the one to behead your lover after she commits seppuku 
wisbech said:
Two plot points I remember from the book they left out or changed
Toranaga came across Ochiba doing the wild thing with a peasant, so suspects her son is illegitimate (and why she hates him)
The reason why the Heir doesn’t join Ishido’s forces isn’t because Ochiba changes her mind, but because she is informed by Mariko that if he comes to battle, Toranaga will make it an absolute priority to kill him
In real history, Tokugawa (Toranaga) killed the heir and his entire family about 15 years later, sieging Osaka castle, over a trumped up dispute over a temple dedication…
Thanks. I struggled to understand some parts - that helps with some motivations. For example, I didn't really get why Mariko's father was a traitor. Was that made-up for the series?Toranaga came across Ochiba doing the wild thing with a peasant, so suspects her son is illegitimate (and why she hates him)
The reason why the Heir doesn’t join Ishido’s forces isn’t because Ochiba changes her mind, but because she is informed by Mariko that if he comes to battle, Toranaga will make it an absolute priority to kill him
In real history, Tokugawa (Toranaga) killed the heir and his entire family about 15 years later, sieging Osaka castle, over a trumped up dispute over a temple dedication…
Also, from talking with someone about the book 30+ years ago, I recall Ishido came to a horrible end.
Google threw up an item of news today that the programme producers were considering a second series but rather than adapting another of his books (the stories of which are unrelated to Shogun) they are considering whether they can write a sequel themselves and retain the cast that is still alive. Not sure how I feel about that... I guess it depends on how much effort is put into it but I am rather sceptical.
Mars said:
Thanks. I struggled to understand some parts - that helps with some motivations. For example, I didn't really get why Mariko's father was a traitor. Was that made-up for the series?
.
No, the real life Mariko's (Gracia Hosokawa) father did rebel against and kill Oda Nobunaga. And it's not known why he turned traitor.
SWoll said:
Looked great, well acted, nowhere near enough story to sustain 10 hours of TV.
As with you, I was bored for the last few episodes. I'm sure they could have cut the run time in half and lost little.
Episode 9 for me was one of the best bits of TV I’ve watched in many years. Rare I get completely absorbed into things these days, I really enjoyed the series generally but I thought this was fantastic.As with you, I was bored for the last few episodes. I'm sure they could have cut the run time in half and lost little.
The last episode was good, but slightly less so.
Would watch again at some point, and like others quite fancy reading the book now.
SlimJim16v said:
Overall very good, but am I the only person who thought the last episode was a bit of an anticlimax?
No, I agree. Overall a great series but a little disappointing that the big climax was episode 9 and the finale was more of a coda. I get what they were trying to do - Blackthorn is only a bit part player and Mariko was the person that really made the difference - but with all the setup and plot around the various political players and dynamics, to finish with just a vague flashforward and a "here's how my secret plan will probably work" is a bit weak. Didn't need a big battle scene, but seeing the plan come to fruition and the 'baddies' get their comeuppance would have given it a bit more closure, given the time invested in all the plot to get us there.
Artistically and thematically it was beautifully done, but perhaps a little lacking in raw entertainment at the end
However the clifftop scene with Yabushige and Toronaga was admittedly top notch telly.
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