Mick Mannock and James McCudden AIr Aces - Timewatch
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
No one is evert completely "free" anyway. We all have to operate within the legal and cultural frameworks of the society in which we live.
It is hard to define what our current state of "freedom" actually is - as different aspects of this freedom come and go over time.
You could analyse it from the point of view of how many laws and regulations you have to obey. Countering that would be any 'rights' that have been granted.It is hard to define what our current state of "freedom" actually is - as different aspects of this freedom come and go over time.
On balance I would say we are far less free than we used to be.
DrTre said:
On a vaguely related theme, there is a great article on the Telegraph at the moment about the British influence on the Top Gun School
I particularly like the following:
"Lord's expertise was so well regarded that he was asked to give lectures to US fighter pilots all along the West Coast.
While the former Royal Navy officer, who married his British wife at Miramar, said he enjoyed the film he did not recognise the characters until his wife told him that the big-talking naval fighter pilots were most accurately depicted.
Although the British did their best to fit in their humour prevailed. Rather than call signs of Viper and Maverick they came up with Dogbreath, Alien and Cholmondley"
i read this and very eye opening it is, especially when they say the us guys had not won an encounter for 2 years.I particularly like the following:
"Lord's expertise was so well regarded that he was asked to give lectures to US fighter pilots all along the West Coast.
While the former Royal Navy officer, who married his British wife at Miramar, said he enjoyed the film he did not recognise the characters until his wife told him that the big-talking naval fighter pilots were most accurately depicted.
Although the British did their best to fit in their humour prevailed. Rather than call signs of Viper and Maverick they came up with Dogbreath, Alien and Cholmondley"
i also remember seeing a clip on telly years ago, of raf or navy pilots in hunters of all things, flying very low, doing amazing turns and out performing American planes with over twice the speed and power. the yanks were going mental over what the Brits were doing, and i am sure i remember one of the American officers saying 'holy s**t thank christ these guys are on our side and here to tell us how to do that'
DJC said:
I am free to do things now that never would have been possible in the past and that is from an increase in economic prosperity
True, what a pity it is all being wasted. Bread and games, that's all it is, bread and games.DJC said:
and a change in political and social attitudes towards the enabling of society in general rather than the preservation of an elite.
Delusional rubbish. What sociology textbook did you get that out of, sonny? Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 24th March 17:12
Eric Mc said:
Hollywood's most recent attempt (Fly Boys) was a bit of a dog's breakfast.
Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
Agreed, or Ridley Scott. 'Flyboys' was utter garbage. No wonder it only cost me £1.99. The best WW1 flying film was Aces High back in '75. But let me warn you, all of these productions reek of today's attitudes projected back to 1916.Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
cardigankid said:
DJC said:
I am free to do things now that never would have been possible in the past and that is from an increase in economic prosperity
True, what a pity it is all being wasted.DJC said:
and a change in political and social attitudes towards the enabling of society in general rather than the preservation of an elite.
Delusional rubbish. What sociology textbook did you get that out of, sonny? sonny? FFS
cardigankid said:
Eric Mc said:
Hollywood's most recent attempt (Fly Boys) was a bit of a dog's breakfast.
Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
Agreed, or Ridley Scott. 'Flyboys' was utter garbage. No wonder it only cost me £1.99. The best WW1 flying film was Aces High back in '75. But let me warn you, all of these productions reek of today's attitudes projected back to 1916.Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
I would recommend some of the early Biggles stories for a pretty accurate rendition of RFC life at that time too. I know they are looked on as kids' books but W E Johns was a WW1 flyer and there is a definite air of authenticity in his accounts of RFC life.
Eric Mc said:
Did you watch the documentary and learn what happened to McCudden when he was appointed Squadron Leader of 85 Squadron?
Don't tell me that some aspects of society aren't better now.
It's not so much that but that some aspects of society weren't as bad previously as some like to paint them, and a lot of aspects now are a great deal worse. We are conned because of the consumer society. Some however would prefer to believe the Hovis ads.Don't tell me that some aspects of society aren't better now.
You think society is more equal now? Take a walk in one of the sink estates round Glasgow, and see how the kids are treated. is that what Mannock would have wanted? Or take a flight in Rupert Murdoch's private jet. I suspect that a lot of people have no conception whatever of how today's rich truly live.
cardigankid said:
Eric Mc said:
Did you watch the documentary and learn what happened to McCudden when he was appointed Squadron Leader of 85 Squadron?
Don't tell me that some aspects of society aren't better now.
It's not so much that but that some aspects of society weren't as bad previously as some like to paint them, and a lot of aspects now are a great deal worse. We are conned because of the consumer society. Some however would prefer to believe the Hovis ads.Don't tell me that some aspects of society aren't better now.
You think society is more equal now? Take a walk in one of the sink estates round Glasgow, and see how the kids are treated. is that what Mannock would have wanted? Or take a flight in Rupert Murdoch's private jet. I suspect that a lot of people have no conception whatever of how today's rich truly live.
back to the OP - the Biggles books are great
but don't bother with the film -- it was truly a stinker involving time travel
Eric Mc said:
cardigankid said:
Eric Mc said:
Hollywood's most recent attempt (Fly Boys) was a bit of a dog's breakfast.
Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
Agreed, or Ridley Scott. 'Flyboys' was utter garbage. No wonder it only cost me £1.99. The best WW1 flying film was Aces High back in '75. But let me warn you, all of these productions reek of today's attitudes projected back to 1916.Peter Jackson's the man for the job as he is an ardent WW1 aircraft nut.
I would recommend some of the early Biggles stories for a pretty accurate rendition of RFC life at that time too. I know they are looked on as kids' books but W E Johns was a WW1 flyer and there is a definite air of authenticity in his accounts of RFC life.
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 24th March 18:20
I watched the programme and it was vwry good. I live in Cork and did not know about Mannock, do you know where he was from or lived in Cork. 20 miles north of Cork City in the town of Fermoy there was an Irish Army home camp to a cavalry squadern. The old name of the camp was the aerodrome, and the hangers are still there. I believe the RFC were there prior to 1922 when England pulled out of Ireland.
majordad said:
I watched the programme and it was vwry good. I live in Cork and did not know about Mannock, do you know where he was from or lived in Cork. 20 miles north of Cork City in the town of Fermoy there was an Irish Army home camp to a cavalry squadern. The old name of the camp was the aerodrome, and the hangers are still there. I believe the RFC were there prior to 1922 when England pulled out of Ireland.
I only discovered Mannock's Irish connections a couple of years ago - although I'd known about him being an ace since I was a kid.In fact, the number of Irish air aces is quite amazing. There is another chap called George McElroy who shot down over 40 German aircraft in WW1 and he was from Dublin.
These Irish aces are virtually unknown in their homeland and maybe it's about time that some sort of recognition of their achievements was recorded in their native land.
In WW2 there was Brendan "Paddy" Finucane, also from Dublin, who shot down over 30 German aircraft. He IS recognised in Ireland now and there is a small memorial garden to him at the Irish Air Corp's HQ at Baldonnell.
Eric Mc said:
majordad said:
I watched the programme and it was vwry good. I live in Cork and did not know about Mannock, do you know where he was from or lived in Cork. 20 miles north of Cork City in the town of Fermoy there was an Irish Army home camp to a cavalry squadern. The old name of the camp was the aerodrome, and the hangers are still there. I believe the RFC were there prior to 1922 when England pulled out of Ireland.
I only discovered Mannock's Irish connections a couple of years ago - although I'd known about him being an ace since I was a kid.In fact, the number of Irish air aces is quite amazing. There is another chap called George McElroy who shot down over 40 German aircraft in WW1 and he was from Dublin.
These Irish aces are virtually unknown in their homeland and maybe it's about time that some sort of recognition of their achievements was recorded in their native land.
In WW2 there was Brendan "Paddy" Finucane, also from Dublin, who shot down over 30 German aircraft. He IS recognised in Ireland now and there is a small memorial garden to him at the Irish Air Corp's HQ at Baldonnell.
Funk Odyssey said:
Eric Mc said:
majordad said:
I watched the programme and it was vwry good. I live in Cork and did not know about Mannock, do you know where he was from or lived in Cork. 20 miles north of Cork City in the town of Fermoy there was an Irish Army home camp to a cavalry squadern. The old name of the camp was the aerodrome, and the hangers are still there. I believe the RFC were there prior to 1922 when England pulled out of Ireland.
I only discovered Mannock's Irish connections a couple of years ago - although I'd known about him being an ace since I was a kid.In fact, the number of Irish air aces is quite amazing. There is another chap called George McElroy who shot down over 40 German aircraft in WW1 and he was from Dublin.
He wass killed in action in 1942 so he didn't have a post war life to cope with. I think you are mixing him up with someone else.
These Irish aces are virtually unknown in their homeland and maybe it's about time that some sort of recognition of their achievements was recorded in their native land.
In WW2 there was Brendan "Paddy" Finucane, also from Dublin, who shot down over 30 German aircraft. He IS recognised in Ireland now and there is a small memorial garden to him at the Irish Air Corp's HQ at Baldonnell.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 25th March 08:50
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff