Dream School - Jamie Oliver
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
I'm not joking - new teachers are told as part of their training to vote Labour in their own interests.
Really...?! I'm currently training on a GTP course, which is a full time, learn on the job equivalent (to all intents and purposes) to a PGCE. Nobody's told me to vote Labour!I've just watched the Jamie Oliver programme on 4od, it's been the talk of the office the last few days.
David Starkey just goes to show that world class subject knowledge doesn't even equal a rudimentary teacher. Teaching itself is the skill. I was nearly at the "shouting at the telly" stage when Jamie Oliver was saying, in his meeting with the headteacher that Starkey's teaching was fantastic - it was awful, nothing more, nothing less!
It's a shame we didn't see much of Rolf's lesson, he seemed the most switched on to the kids.
Most of the teachers made the fatal error of not setting out their expectations at the start, and beginning by talking over the kids. Respect goes both ways, the kids know that. Show them respect, and they will show you respect, in all but the most extreme cases.
My biggest misgiving about the whole programme though is the "celebrities fix everything" ethos. It does an injustice to the thousands of excellent, worked-to-the-bone teachers out there, giving excellent and engaging lessons to kids day in, day out.
timbob said:
Twincam16 said:
I'm not joking - new teachers are told as part of their training to vote Labour in their own interests.
Really...?! I'm currently training on a GTP course, which is a full time, learn on the job equivalent (to all intents and purposes) to a PGCE. Nobody's told me to vote Labour!It's not so much the training, it's the older faces and their views, I think the worst offender strangely enough, is the "Citizenship" lecturer.
timbob said:
Most of the teachers made the fatal error of not setting out their expectations at the start, and beginning by talking over the kids. Respect goes both ways, the kids know that. Show them respect, and they will show you respect, in all but the most extreme cases.
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
OllieC said:
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.
The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
It appears that the children are always defended the teachers never are.
Starkey doesn't need to earn respect from those tosers.
Arse about face as you say. I'm going to stop now because I almost typed "In my day"
Greenie said:
OllieC said:
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.
The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
It appears that the children are always defended the teachers never are.
Starkey doesn't need to earn respect from those tosers.
Arse about face as you say. I'm going to stop now because I almost typed "In my day"
timbob said:
David Starkey just goes to show that world class subject knowledge doesn't even equal a rudimentary teacher. Teaching itself is the skill. I was nearly at the "shouting at the telly" stage when Jamie Oliver was saying, in his meeting with the headteacher that Starkey's teaching was fantastic - it was awful, nothing more, nothing less!
He taught history at LSE for 26 years. Why don't you see how your career goes before you critise his teaching ability too much.Eric Mc said:
Greenie said:
OllieC said:
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.
The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
It appears that the children are always defended the teachers never are.
Starkey doesn't need to earn respect from those tosers.
Arse about face as you say. I'm going to stop now because I almost typed "In my day"
Unlike yourself Eric I didn't witness the Great Famine but I was around for corporal punishment.
Greenie said:
timbob said:
David Starkey just goes to show that world class subject knowledge doesn't even equal a rudimentary teacher. Teaching itself is the skill. I was nearly at the "shouting at the telly" stage when Jamie Oliver was saying, in his meeting with the headteacher that Starkey's teaching was fantastic - it was awful, nothing more, nothing less!
He taught history at LSE for 26 years. Why don't you see how your career goes before you critise his teaching ability too much.Greenie said:
Eric Mc said:
Greenie said:
OllieC said:
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.
The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
It appears that the children are always defended the teachers never are.
Starkey doesn't need to earn respect from those tosers.
Arse about face as you say. I'm going to stop now because I almost typed "In my day"
Unlike yourself Eric I didn't witness the Great Famine but I was around for corporal punishment.
Greenie said:
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.
I have a feeling I'm not going to get much support for this view, but why should children need to earn respect from the teachers? Why doesn't everyone have a starting point of having respect for each other, whether you're a 60-year-old with a history of achievements behind you, or a 10-year-old with none? In that relationship between those two individuals, they should start off having respect for each other.
From that point, they may gain or lose it, but surely everyone, no matter who they are or what age they are, should start off respecting the other?
Greenie said:
OllieC said:
I see where you are coming from and broadly I do agree, but the respect issue should be the other way round.
The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
Absolutely. Teachers shouldn't have to earn respect, the kids' parents should teach them to respect their teachers from the off. Children need to earn respect of the teachers.The children should show respect to their elders, whereupon it should be reciprocated. I think this is where society has things arse about face.
It appears that the children are always defended the teachers never are.
Starkey doesn't need to earn respect from those tosers.
Arse about face as you say. I'm going to stop now because I almost typed "In my day"
MiniMan64 said:
Greenie said:
timbob said:
David Starkey just goes to show that world class subject knowledge doesn't even equal a rudimentary teacher. Teaching itself is the skill. I was nearly at the "shouting at the telly" stage when Jamie Oliver was saying, in his meeting with the headteacher that Starkey's teaching was fantastic - it was awful, nothing more, nothing less!
He taught history at LSE for 26 years. Why don't you see how your career goes before you critise his teaching ability too much.
kers and school was st" parenting, doing a subject they may have no interest in or aptitude for, where they may not even be academically biased.Couldn't be more different.
MiniMan64 said:
Greenie said:
timbob said:
David Starkey just goes to show that world class subject knowledge doesn't even equal a rudimentary teacher. Teaching itself is the skill. I was nearly at the "shouting at the telly" stage when Jamie Oliver was saying, in his meeting with the headteacher that Starkey's teaching was fantastic - it was awful, nothing more, nothing less!
He taught history at LSE for 26 years. Why don't you see how your career goes before you critise his teaching ability too much.
An unqualified teacher suggesting someone with 40 years educational experience isn't even equal to "a rudimentary teacher" based one edited "lesson" from an entertainment show is idiotic.
Greenie said:
You don't say
An unqualified teacher suggesting someone with 40 years educational experience isn't even equal to "a rudimentary teacher" based one edited "lesson" from an entertainment show is idiotic.
Having taught at LSE, as has been pointed out is an entirely different ball game. I have no doubt that, as a lecturer, he may be among the best in the world. He is widely known for his excellent subject knowledge. My point is that having that excellent subject knowledge doesn't automatically make a good secondary school teacher.An unqualified teacher suggesting someone with 40 years educational experience isn't even equal to "a rudimentary teacher" based one edited "lesson" from an entertainment show is idiotic.
Me being unqualified hasn't got a lot to do with it quite frankly. Teaching and learning are very different things. He may have been teaching the kids in that lesson some great stuff, but the learning appeared to be practically non-existent. That makes it a bad lesson.
My mentor at school, who happens to be an SEN and low motivation specialist (she would LOVE the challenge of getting kids like this to learn and teaches similar kids on a daily basis), and head of department at work (who are both outstanding teachers) happen to agree.
Edited by timbob on Tuesday 8th March 22:52
forced to watch the second instalment last night, if I hear the word 'respect' one more time...
other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
chippy17 said:
forced to watch the second instalment last night, if I hear the word 'respect' one more time...
other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
One of, if not the major problem with our school system - vocational skills are seen as the poor relations to academic qualifications that to many pupils who aren't going to go on to university have little or no relevance.other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
Twincam16 said:
chippy17 said:
forced to watch the second instalment last night, if I hear the word 'respect' one more time...
other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
One of, if not the major problem with our school system - vocational skills are seen as the poor relations to academic qualifications that to many pupils who aren't going to go on to university have little or no relevance.other thing I noticed was the children were sitting in the class with their laptops on, is this because they are using them for the classes or..?
one last thing and then i will go: I saw these children being far more interested in the hands on classes, art, music, photography. Are schools these days channelling children correctly, not everyone is born to be academic? Perhaps there is a great carpenter amongst them for example...
Jamie made some observations about schools that don't teach home economics. Learning to cook is an essential life skill for everyone. Your parents won't be around forever to make your dinner for you.
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