The end of Amsterdam weekends?
Discussion
NorthernBoy said:
Why is it not the same? In both cases we are talking about discriminating against people on the basis of "you're not from round here, are you?"
I work in an investment bank, and we have a few Dutch in the London office, would it be fine for me to replace them with Londoners?
If my local pub decided to only serve locals, would that be fine, too?
Why is it acceptable to sell to/employ/serve some Europeans but not others in what is supposed to be a free market? Why, if you accept that it's allowable, can people not also discriminate on other grounds, such as skin colour?
Edited to add, your comment above about the French is exactly on a par with a landlord saying "I don't want any Pakistanis coming in here". If you want to discriminate based on an accident of birth, then don't get upset when you are picked up on it.
The licensee of a pub/club can serve who he/she likes.I work in an investment bank, and we have a few Dutch in the London office, would it be fine for me to replace them with Londoners?
If my local pub decided to only serve locals, would that be fine, too?
Why is it acceptable to sell to/employ/serve some Europeans but not others in what is supposed to be a free market? Why, if you accept that it's allowable, can people not also discriminate on other grounds, such as skin colour?
Edited to add, your comment above about the French is exactly on a par with a landlord saying "I don't want any Pakistanis coming in here". If you want to discriminate based on an accident of birth, then don't get upset when you are picked up on it.
Edited by NorthernBoy on Sunday 2nd October 13:09
I take it you've never been denied access to a club because you had the wrong shoes/jeans on?
ExChrispy Porker said:
The licensee of a pub/club can serve who he/she likes.
I take it you've never been denied access to a club because you had the wrong shoes/jeans on?
Because nationality is the same as clothing...? I take it you've never been denied access to a club because you had the wrong shoes/jeans on?
Let's at least compare apples with apples here.
Can you imagine the uproar here if people from certain european countries were banned wholesale from pubs, because a minority of idiots from that country caused trouble?
Marf said:
Because nationality is the same as clothing...?
Let's at least compare apples with apples here.
Can you imagine the uproar here if people from european countries were banned wholesale from pubs, because a minority of idiots from that country caused trouble?
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in. Dress standards are merely one example.Let's at least compare apples with apples here.
Can you imagine the uproar here if people from european countries were banned wholesale from pubs, because a minority of idiots from that country caused trouble?
Tell you what, see if you can get into my local on New Years Eve. Bet you can't
ExChrispy Porker said:
Tell you what, see if you can get into my local on New Years Eve. Bet you can't
Is it cos I is vaguely beige?Seriously though
ExChrispy Porker said:
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in. Dress standards are merely one example.
OK I'm going to start a pub, no disabled people allowed. No blacks allowed. This is ok because as a licensee I can apply whatever restrictions I like on who I allow in?
Edited by Marf on Sunday 2nd October 14:27
ExChrispy Porker said:
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in.
No they can't. Put a 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs' sign up outside a pub and see what happens.
Do you not remember the gay Bed & Breakfast thing?
ExChrispy Porker said:
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in. Dress standards are merely one example.
Tell you what, see if you can get into my local on New Years Eve. Bet you can't
In this country a licencee cannot refuse entry to licenced premises on the grounds of nationality.Tell you what, see if you can get into my local on New Years Eve. Bet you can't
I would suggest that refusing permission to a person because he or she did not come from one of a group of countries would also be classed as racist.
MX7 said:
ExChrispy Porker said:
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in.
No they can't. Put a 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs' sign up outside a pub and see what happens.
Do you not remember the gay Bed & Breakfast thing?
I like dogs!
P.S and the Irish are good craic.
robsti said:
MX7 said:
ExChrispy Porker said:
My point is that licensees can impose whatever restrictions they like on who they allow in.
No they can't. Put a 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs' sign up outside a pub and see what happens.
Do you not remember the gay Bed & Breakfast thing?
I like dogs!
(although it goes without saying that they are bound by discrimination laws).
However, you don't have any rights to be served by the licensee or his staff, whatsoever.
ExChrispy Porker said:
The licensee of a pub/club can serve who he/she likes.
Totally the opposite is now true in Holland. The owner is strictly forbidden from serving who he/she likes under the new laws. If they serve someone from, say, England or Italy they will be liable to prosecution.It is clearly illegal under any number of EU laws/regulations.
A lex said:
Ah yes how witty and clever it is to change the quotes around - good on ya!
Its very easy to be outraged when it doesnt affect you in any way, shape or form - but back in the real world its going to improve the quality of life for a lot of people and cut out a serious amount of BS that both residents and Police have to deal with week in, week out.
I too look forward to it in the courts, in oooh say 5 years time at the rate things progress these days. Then there will be an appeal, then a slight modifacation of the rules and so on and so on. In the mean-time the residents of border towns will be living in a nicer place.
It makes me a laugh a little when people post on here either genuinely (or pretending) to be outraged when they posses little knowledge of the subject and certainly no direct experience - then again this is PH and I suppose its to be expected
A lex, you are not the only who lives in Holland! Its very easy to be outraged when it doesnt affect you in any way, shape or form - but back in the real world its going to improve the quality of life for a lot of people and cut out a serious amount of BS that both residents and Police have to deal with week in, week out.
I too look forward to it in the courts, in oooh say 5 years time at the rate things progress these days. Then there will be an appeal, then a slight modifacation of the rules and so on and so on. In the mean-time the residents of border towns will be living in a nicer place.
It makes me a laugh a little when people post on here either genuinely (or pretending) to be outraged when they posses little knowledge of the subject and certainly no direct experience - then again this is PH and I suppose its to be expected
PS Actually I don't live here but my missus is Dutch so I've been coming over here for several years once or twice a month. I reckon I have a pretty good insight on how the place works, not just fancy-pants Maastricht, which i would venture to suggest is slightly different from say, industrial Rotterdam)
Just found this.
Maastricht ban on tourists in marijuana cafes upheld by EU court
I think all that will happen is that they will start a trade in Dutch 'buyers' who go into the shops to buy for foreigners. It's like going back to the days when kids would ask you to buy 10 B&H outside the corner shop.
Maastricht ban on tourists in marijuana cafes upheld by EU court
Article said:
"Moves by the Dutch border town of Maastricht to ban foreigners from its marijuana cafes have been upheld by the European court, in a rare contravention of EU laws governing free markets and free movement of people."
"In his finding, the EU court's advocate general, Yve Bot, said that narcotics do not count as regular goods because they are against the law. "Narcotics, including cannabis, are not goods like others and their sale does not benefit from the freedoms of movement guaranteed by European Union law, inasmuch as their sale is unlawful," he said."
However, it also says that "Maastricht decided to limit admission to coffee shops to Dutch residents only", but that hasn't happened as the ban does not apply to visitors from Germany and Belgium."In his finding, the EU court's advocate general, Yve Bot, said that narcotics do not count as regular goods because they are against the law. "Narcotics, including cannabis, are not goods like others and their sale does not benefit from the freedoms of movement guaranteed by European Union law, inasmuch as their sale is unlawful," he said."
I think all that will happen is that they will start a trade in Dutch 'buyers' who go into the shops to buy for foreigners. It's like going back to the days when kids would ask you to buy 10 B&H outside the corner shop.
Derek Smith said:
In this country a licencee cannot refuse entry to licenced premises on the grounds of nationality.
I would suggest that refusing permission to a person because he or she did not come from one of a group of countries would also be classed as racist.
Residency, nationality, race. Different things.I would suggest that refusing permission to a person because he or she did not come from one of a group of countries would also be classed as racist.
As I understand the proposal, it's to restrict sales to people in a scheme, and that requires local residency.
There are things in the UK that require an address in a state, e.g. UK drivers licence or sole directorship of a ltd company (or at least one of the directors must be). These are administrative restriction based on where you live.
I went to a track day this month where there was a restriction that stated "UK drivers licence". Was that racist?
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