Bitcoins?

[Ayahuasca]

Atomic12C said:

Jonesy23 said:

No one is treating it as 'currency' any more though, all the current value of the various coins is based on the hope that they'll continue to increase in value rather than any inherent worth or usefulness. Just like the classic tulip bulbs.

A currency without a relatively stable conversion value is useless. And certainly one where you might see a double digit percentage increase in value in a day is going to freeze up as everyone sits on it hoping for further gains.

This is why I never invested in it. I always struggled to get my head around the question "what happens when I want to cash in?".
This relies on somebody somewhere exchanging my collection of bitcoins for GBP.
Now I know this works for small purchases, because the risk can be mitigated. But for large amounts of money the risk goes up and relies on someone else valuing bitcoin and trusting it can then also be exchanged for FIAT currency when they want to cash in. (This is the basis of a currency - the trust factor - because nothing these days is backed by gold).

There was a property for sale in London recently where the currency stated was bitcoin only. I'm thinking the seller is either a crazy or knows something that the rest of us doesn't.

Imagine if Bitcoin replaced Sterling. It would be a disaster as nobody would buy anything as whatever they buy would be a worse investment than keeping the Bitcoin.

[anonymous-user]

Atomic12C said:

Its more like inflation is a result of money printing isn't it? (Cause and effect the correct way round)

And inflation as a whole, when you look at asset prices and cost of living etc. its more like 6%.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflatio...

The opposite of a 'currency bubble' would be hyperinflation. The slow, mostly predictable, contained devaluation of western Fiat currencies through inflation is simply not comparable. I don't know if crypto currencies are in a bubble yet or not, I suspect they are given there are now 1300 currencies 'valued' at $1/4tr! If it is a bubble though we could be a long way from the top; during Tulip mania 40 bulbs sold for 100,000 guilders or 1000 times the average wage, $8000/BTC is peanuts! Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds was first published in the 1800's and remains just as relevant today!

[anonymous-user]

Atomic12C said:

This is why I never invested in it. I always struggled to get my head around the question "what happens when I want to cash in?".
This relies on somebody somewhere exchanging my collection of bitcoins for GBP.
Now I know this works for small purchases, because the risk can be mitigated. But for large amounts of money the risk goes up and relies on someone else valuing bitcoin and trusting it can then also be exchanged for FIAT currency when they want to cash in. (This is the basis of a currency - the trust factor - because nothing these days is backed by gold).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

[Atomic12C]

Ayahuasca said:

Imagine if Bitcoin replaced Sterling. It would be a disaster as nobody would buy anything as whatever they buy would be a worse investment than keeping the Bitcoin.

True, but that only works if one values holding a currency vs holding an asset.
An asset will have more value if it also has a use.
(You can't live inside a bitcoin for example)

[Atomic12C]

fblm said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

True.

This happens to describe the many of the current prices for performance cars on the 2nd hand market in the UK
Everything described as being an investment.
(Another bubble that is likely to burst).

[Ayahuasca]

Just saw an article in 'Fortune' entitled "How to Bet Against the Bitcoin Megabubble."


http://fortune.com/2013/12/05/how-to-bet-against-t...










It was written in 2013 when BTC was $1,000.

[anonymous-user]

Atomic12C said:

True.

This happens to describe the many of the current prices for performance cars on the 2nd hand market in the UK
Everything described as being an investment.
(Another bubble that is likely to burst).

Just because you're absolutely right doesn't mean you should go round saying it on a public forum where our wives might read it!

[Ayahuasca]

Is anyone writing put options on BTC and if so at what price?

[anonymous-user]

Ayahuasca said:

Is anyone writing put options on BTC and if so at what price?

http://data.ledgerx.com/

[Ayahuasca]

fblm said:

Ayahuasca said:

Is anyone writing put options on BTC and if so at what price?

http://data.ledgerx.com/

Cheers . Doesn't seem to be much of a market then.

[WatchfulEye]

Ayahuasca said:

Is anyone writing put options on BTC and if so at what price?

https://www.deribit.com/main#/options

[Shaoxter]

bucksmanuk said:

I had some “wise” heads advise me very strongly this was going nowhere, when I was seriously considering buying a 1 grands worth at $42/Bitcoin.
WTF do I know - eh?
Still... Mustn’t grumble…

Let's just say you had invested at that point and made 200k, how would one go about withdrawing that amount?

[anonymous-user]

the problem you are getting are more people are ho,ding btcs, demand is increasing so supply is limited. these means the price will climb but will be very susceptible to crashes when people cash out. it is a new era and could be a bubble, but bernie madoffs one went on for years, so if if it then it could be another ten years.

[Gareth79]

Shaoxter said:

bucksmanuk said:

I had some “wise” heads advise me very strongly this was going nowhere, when I was seriously considering buying a 1 grands worth at $42/Bitcoin.
WTF do I know - eh?
Still... Mustn’t grumble…

Let's just say you had invested at that point and made 200k, how would one go about withdrawing that amount?

It's feasible to do so, but I recall some banks have got nervous of accepting funds from bitcoin exchanges. Then you also have the risks of ensuring your wallet has been secure over all that time (or it wasn't in an exchange that disappeared).

Then finally what are the chances that somebody would have kept the entire amount all that time? The usual stories are when they had been forgotten about but the files were still around.

[bucksmanuk]

Shaoxter said:

bucksmanuk said:

I had some “wise” heads advise me very strongly this was going nowhere, when I was seriously considering buying a 1 grands worth at $42/Bitcoin.
WTF do I know - eh?
Still... Mustn’t grumble…

Let's just say you had invested at that point and made 200k, how would one go about withdrawing that amount?

I discussed it with the man on the phone at Barclays who were then just starting to have bitcoin accounts, early ’12? He didn’t seem to think there would be an issue. It’s all academic now though… I do find myself thinking about that elusive £200k and probably still climbing …..

[22]

I bought some at around $260 (and was too embarrassed to tell anyone). Probably ought to cash in a bit. Hoping that dusty old laptop has my bitcoin log in remembered!

Any sensible UK retailers accept them (electronics/tablets/phones etc)?

[anonymous-user]

Microsoft and scan i think, there are a few.

[WindyCommon]

The Spruce goose said:

the problem you are getting are more people are ho,ding btcs, demand is increasing so supply is limited. these means the price will climb but will be very susceptible to crashes when people cash out. it is a new era and could be a bubble, but bernie madoffs one went on for years, so if if it then it could be another ten years.

A bubble is not the same as a fraud.

[anonymous-user]

WindyCommon said:

A bubble is not the same as a fraud.

Well in the biggest bubble in financial history fraud was a a massive contributing factor so they can become entwined.

'' A new paper finds evidence of widespread fraud in mortgage securitisation.'
''BUBBLES are conducive to fraud''

'' Unscrupulous sellers exploit this incaution. The victims are none the wiser as long as the bubble continues to inflate.''

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/...

[WindyCommon]

A logician would give you an “F” for that, as would a linguist.