Right to self-defence in homes to be 'much clearer'

[grand cherokee]

Tonsko said:

Could anyone here talking of shooting trespassers dead live with themselves some time after the event when the anger at home being invaded etc. has worn off and you come to the conclusion you've actually taken a life? Fair enough if so, but I'm not sure I could. I think I'd feel the same amount of remorse from that as if I was involved in a RTC (for example) that was my fault and a person died.

hell, yes i could live with it no problem

the RTA death bares no comparison as you did NOT intentionally take a life - you may have been stupid/irresponsible etc but your aim was not to kill

as for shooting burglars etc - forget the crap about shooting to wound/disable - even SAS/Delta/Seal Team 6 etc don't do that because its not practical

to the average shooter and even pro's you aim for 'centre body mass' - ie the chest as its contains organs that are essential to life!

but be warned - given the easy availability of ballistic body armour your 'standard' 9mm might not be up to the job

you might notice UK armed police formerly used the HK MP5 with 9mm rounds have changed ammo because terrorists are now assumed to have access to body armour

Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 7th July 10:35

[greygoose]

Tonsko said:

Perhaps I worded it badly - I think I'd feel as much remorse from killing an intruder as I would killing someone by accident (for example in a RTC). I'd still feel that I had taken a life. In the heat of the moment (of the burglary or whatever), if I had the means and there was a threat to me, I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but as time went on and the adrenaline/anger/resentment at having my home invaded faded, I imagine I'd feel pretty horrible.

Truthfullly though, I have no idea how I'd react. I'm a complete pussy, so I'd probably just try to barricade myself (+family)in a room and let them take what they wanted, in preference to standing up to them.

So, yeh. Would no-one else feel that?

You are correct most people would suffer after such an incident, you would have to be a psychopath to have no feelings over the taking of a life. Whilst the internet bravado exhibited by many of the high-earning, ex-SAS, powerfully built typical members of PH suggests they would relish the chance to execute an intruder, the reality of living with the emotional consequences afterwards may be harder to bear.

[grand cherokee]

greygoose said:

You are correct most people would suffer after such an incident, you would have to be a psychopath to have no feelings over the taking of a life. Whilst the internet bravado exhibited by many of the high-earning, ex-SAS, powerfully built typical members of PH suggests they would relish the chance to execute an intruder, the reality of living with the emotional consequences afterwards may be harder to bear.

psychopath - give me a break?

i've not seen one post by anyone 'wanting' to take a life?

if you have ever been in the 'kill/be killed' scenario and are still standing your first feeling is immense relief that you are still alive

when the adrenaline rush subsides and you get the shakes/vomit you still thank 'god' that you/family/friends are still alive

you should have no moral qualms/flashbacks if what you did at the time was right - hell, even 18 yrs old guys in combat realise that and they have far more legal 'cover' than a homeowner - plus they have 'back up' whereas a homeowner is generally on their own!

[greygoose]

grand cherokee said:

you should have no moral qualms/flashbacks if what you did at the time was right - hell, even 18 yrs old guys in combat realise that and they have far more legal 'cover' than a homeowner - plus they have 'back up' whereas a homeowner is generally on their own!

You "should" have no moral qualms/flashbacks but do you think this is really the case, why do you think so many ex-servicemen suffer mental health problems and end up homeless etc? Killing people isn't like a videogame where it is over after you turn the machine off.

[Tonsko]

grand cherokee said:

the RTA death bares no comparison as you did NOT intentionally take a life - you may have been stupid/irresponsible etc but your aim was not to kill

as for shooting burglars etc - forget the crap about shooting to wound/disable - even SAS/Delta/Seal Team 6 etc don't do that because its not practical

Yeh, I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but I think in my mind I would still have taken a life. Killed someone. I'm not sure could rationalise it, no matter how much I tried. I also hope to never be in that situation!

As for aiming for the body, I'm a crap shot with an air rifle, so if I DID find myself in possession of a handgun AND in the situation of being robbed at home, I would aim for the largest target! This is quite an unlikely scenario though... I imagine firing a handgun (never done it) is not as easy as it is on TV. It would probably take some practice to get used to the recoil and what have you.

[grand cherokee]

greygoose said:

You "should" have no moral qualms/flashbacks but do you think this is really the case, why do you think so many ex-servicemen suffer mental health problems and end up homeless etc? Killing people isn't like a videogame where it is over after you turn the machine off.

what are you on about? - have you ever been in the forces or killed another person in self defence?

the mental health issues are not about the actual act of 'killing' -its stress etc - homelessness is about the inability to adapt to civilian life - you have spent say three years with guys who would have died for you - you leave the forces and find that civvies care more about the latest iphone than loyalty/camaraderie! - and then they call you mercenaries/child killer!

and why do folk from WW2 sleep soundly in their beds then? - they saw far worse than anything in Iraq/'Stan etc

the only WW2 vets i know who had 'issues' were those who liberated the concentration camps/burma railroad etc

Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 7th July 11:22

[greygoose]

grand cherokee said:

what are you on about? - have you ever been in the forces or killed another person in self defence?

the mental health issues are not about the actual act of 'killing' -its stress etc

and why do folk from WW2 sleep soundly in their beds then? - they saw far worse than anything in Iraq/'Stan etc

the only WW2 vets i know who had 'issues' were those who liberated the concentration camps/burma railroad etc

Shell shock and post-traumatic stress disorder obviously never exist then and no I have never killed anyone (or caught a burglar in my house to return to the topic).

[grand cherokee]

greygoose said:

Shell shock and post-traumatic stress disorder obviously never exist then and no I have never killed anyone (or caught a burglar in my house to return to the topic).

i rest my case - talk the talk

shell shock aka pts was acknowledged after WW1 - you really should get out more!

you have actually failed to address another possible cause of 'after effects' from GW1/2/'Stan - the use/exposure to DU and the biological/nerve agents injections/pills used on forces?

best stick to computer games?

[greygoose]

grand cherokee said:

i rest my case - talk the talk

So only people who have killed a burglar can contribute to this thread , is Tony Martin a member?

[grand cherokee]

greygoose said:

So only people who have killed a burglar can contribute to this thread , is Tony Martin a member?

you are being a 'silly billy' now!

Tony Martin was seen by many as a hero - the guy he killed was on borrowed time - shame he did not get the real 'problem' - Fearnan (spelling?) - and i know quite a bit about the background of both as they lived not far from me - Fearnan was thrown out of the traveller community for his drug dealing and complicity in the young lads death!

[grand cherokee]

as to the 'act of killing' - i no longer do any deer stalking though it was part of my 'business' for a number of years

the deer did not 'deserve' to die - these scum along with terrorists deserve what they get - they went into it with 'open eyes' - nobody made them do it

whereas the deer through no fault of its own dies because of its 'intrusion/effect' on a man made environment

[Tonsko]

Mm, but I respectfully suggest that shooting an animal dead is different to shooting a person dead.

[Halb]

Tonsko said:

Mm, but I respectfully suggest that shooting an animal dead is different to shooting a person dead.

For myself, I would not wish to shoot any animal (including humans), unless my (or family's) life was in danger, or we were being burgled.

Edited by Halb on Thursday 7th July 13:13

[Tonsko]

That's another discussion! But yeh, I tend to agree.

[grand cherokee]

Tonsko said:

Mm, but I respectfully suggest that shooting an animal dead is different to shooting a person dead.

very true - shooting a scumbag or terrorist is easy!

and as i said in an earlier post i've 'culled' many deer - enjoyed it to start with and then lost the 'taste' - but they do need to be culled as having no natural predator there is no control on numbers etc - i have no moral objection - just no longer for me!

i still shoot game - but only 'wild' and walked up - no longer the 'driven days of 300+ birds