Another Famine in Africa

[Negative Creep]

I see the tv is full of images of another famine in the Horn of Africa, the worst in 60 years apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14023160

Whilst it's horrible to see, not to mention for everyone affected by it, we've been seeing these images for 30 years and yet nothing seems to change. We must have pumped billions into those countries yet starvation still occurs on a regular basis. Is there anything we can realistically do or will the latest donations end up being spend on AK47s and RPGs? Is it callous of me to be thinking that the truth is simply that the geography of that area cannot support such a large population?

[Mark34bn]

I don't understand how after all these years they're still in exactly the same situation. It's hard to see these people starving but you think they'd have moved by now. It's been 26 years since live aid - couldn't someone have built a network of water pipes or something to get decent irrigation into drier areas? Desalination plants around the coast pumping water inland?
I understand corruption is rife and there's no money there but why do their towns (for instance) have a massive river of st running through the houses? Other nations have learned to create sewers etc over the last 300 years
I can't see their situation changing - ever, if they carry on as they are.

This may seem harsh, but the number of times you see documentaries that show the village sewer sharing the same river that they wash / drink from.
Compassion fatigue is the phrase I'm looking for.

Edited by Mark34bn on Tuesday 5th July 18:27

[TimJMS]

It may also surprise you to learn (it shocked me) that in the short time since Live Aid, the population of Ethiopia has doubled.

[AndrewW-G]

Mark34bn said:

I don't understand how after all these years they're still in exactly the same situation.

No education and bad leadership . . . . . whilst I feel sorry for the people who will die, I won’t be giving a penny for any collection, unless all the senior government bods of the countries involved, empty their bank accounts first

[carmonk]

TimJMS said:

It may also surprise you to learn (it shocked me) that in the short time since Live Aid, the population of Ethiopia has doubled.

And therein lies the problem. The healthier people are the more children they have and the more children survive to have even more children which the land can't support.

[BliarOut]

"The rains have failed again". Nope, didn't see that one coming. Are there ANY dams in Africa? Yes the images of individual suffering are horrible, but Africa really needs to get it's st together.

[Tsippy]

carmonk said:

TimJMS said:

It may also surprise you to learn (it shocked me) that in the short time since Live Aid, the population of Ethiopia has doubled.

And therein lies the problem. The healthier people are the more children they have and the more children survive to have even more children which the land can't support.

I was wondering whether this might be partially to blame, ie too many people for an area that cannot support them.

As sad as these images are, maybe ending aid to areas like this will allow a natural balance to return and a lower future death toll?

[carmonk]

Tsippy said:

carmonk said:

TimJMS said:

It may also surprise you to learn (it shocked me) that in the short time since Live Aid, the population of Ethiopia has doubled.

And therein lies the problem. The healthier people are the more children they have and the more children survive to have even more children which the land can't support.

I was wondering whether this might be partially to blame, ie too many people for an area that cannot support them.

As sad as these images are, maybe ending aid to areas like this will allow a natural balance to return and a lower future death toll?

Ironic as that sounds that's probably true.

[singlecoil]

The Hardinian Taboo is the name given to the thing that nobody will discuss openly, population control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Hardin

I suppose the problem is that everybody feels entitled to have children, and BBC producers want them just as much as Ethiopian farmers. So it simply wouldn't do for anybody to make programmes about the need to curb population growth, if it didn't apply to the programme makers themselves.

[scottdav]

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll have food for live.

Basically that, if the billions spent on war (for example) went to projects that helped food cultivation in those climates i doubt there would be a problem. Possibly GM crops, pipes and filtration devices pumping sea water to reservoirs. Obviously i'm just some random idiot but something could be done.

Seems to me population growth is exceeding economic growth at the moment. We waste money on extravagant 'necessities' while a staggering % of the worlds people struggle for food or water is something that gets to me though.

ETA

A lot people from these countries have deep set beliefs of large families being beneficial for both survival and territorial means. They also need education as 10+ kids per family does not help.

Edited by scottdav on Tuesday 5th July 18:59

[MX7]

It's a mess, isn't it. Both inevitable and sad.

[singlecoil]

scottdav said:

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll have food for live.

Until all the fish are gone. Africa in an insoluble problem. Saving one generation by providing food and/or infrastructure just moves the problem into the future, where it will come back exponentially increased, and eventually there will not be enough food in the entire world to feed everybody.

[scottdav]

singlecoil said:

Until all the fish are gone. Africa in an insoluble problem. Saving one generation by providing food and/or infrastructure just moves the problem into the future, where it will come back exponentially increased, and eventually there will not be enough food in the entire world to feed everybody.

scottdav said:

A lot people from these countries have deep set beliefs of large families being beneficial for both survival and territorial means. They also need education as 10+ kids per family does not help.

I'm sure having no wars over food or having most of their kids die would help them realize so many children is a bad idea for their future.

Edited by scottdav on Tuesday 5th July 19:13

[Fittster]

Offer them passports to countries with more hospitable climates. How many people are you will to give UK passports to in order to prevent them starving to death?

[singlecoil]

scottdav said:

I'm sure having no wars over food or having most of their kids die would help them realize so many children is a bad idea for their future.

They may realise that having such population growth is a bad idea for them, en masse, but it's a good thing for each of them individually to have as many children as they can. So, as it's a case of everyone for themselves in Africa, just as it is here and everywhere else, population growth there will continue unchecked.

[jbi]

If you have been to Africa it would all start to make sense. Corruption, lazyness, promiscuity, tribalism, lack of morality and greed.

It's easy to get teary eye'd like my mates wife until she actually went. Within a weekend she didn't have a good word to say for any of them.

[spaximus]

This is not the first or last famine we will see in Africa. The money pumped in over the years has helped to make some rich and powerful, others have seen little change. Irrigation schemes would see the land able to support people if managed properly. take Zimbabwe, it used to supply food allover Africa, now because they took all the land from the farmers to redistribute wealth, they cannot feed themselves. We will see pictures of hearthbreaking suffering but will it ever end?
Religion plays a negative part, the Chatolic church will not support contraceptives, muslims want bigger families but when this happens people still die.

All aid should be linked to education,no aid to countries who spend on armies and planes for dictators.

[scottdav]

jbi said:

If you have been to Africa it would all start to make sense. Corruption, lazyness, promiscuity, tribalism, lack of morality and greed.

If you're raised in those conditions with all this around you then there's a damn high chance you're going to end up being the same. People out there still believe if they go and chop bits off another person then have them 'used' upon them by some almighty spirit nutter they will benefit in whatever way he says.

A proper education encompassing things like psychology, sociology etc. could probably be picked up pretty quickly considering the things they are taught now are on a similar level albeit incredibly barbaric. It really could do wonders for their whole country along with having no worries over food and water.

Just remembered an article on the IMF in Africa i was going heavily edit due to length.
A link is easier though

If you can't spare 3-4mins (well worth it) then just read the snippet below.

If the IMF had acted in its official role, it would have given loans and guided the country to develop in the same way that Britain and the US and every other successful country had developed – by protecting its infant industries, subsidising its farmers, and investing in the education and health of its people.

[MX7]

scottdav said:

Just remembered an article on the IMF in Africa i was going heavily edit due to length.
A link is easier though

1. That's an email link.
2. It's Johann fking Hari.

It's not just Dominique Strauss-Kahn. The IMF itself should be on trial

"So the fact that Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the former head of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), is facing trial for allegedly raping a maid in a New York hotel room is – rightly – big news. But imagine a prominent figure was charged not with raping a maid, but starving her to death, along with her children, her parents, and thousands of other people. That is what the IMF has done to innocent people in the recent past."

A typically poor and contextless parallel to draw, and it even has an element of bad taste about it. Hari at his finest.

[Lancs Jag Boy]

jbi said:

If you have been to Africa it would all start to make sense. Corruption, lazyness, promiscuity, tribalism, lack of morality and greed.

It's easy to get teary eye'd like my mates wife until she actually went. Within a weekend she didn't have a good word to say for any of them.

It's not a fashionable point of view, but French, British & Belgian Colonies with direct rule would (did) actually deliver education, investment in idustry and infrastructure, sustainable and robust agriculutre and law and order. In many African countries infrastructure investment ended the day after independence.

This isn’t going to happen of course, because empires are so yesterday.