Another Famine in Africa

[db]

Negative Creep said:

Is there anything we can realistically do ...? Is it callous of me to be thinking that the truth is simply that the geography of that area cannot support such a large population?

yup, drive a gas guzzler and pray that global warming brings them rain.

the geography of that area, and many others, cannot sustain their increasing population. they have no water, hence they travel many thousands of miles to seek our climate

[Sheets Tabuer]

Can you watch your fellow man die through hunger sat there with full bellies and seriously say they have had enough help?

[MartyPubes]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Can you watch your fellow man die through hunger sat there with full bellies and seriously say they have had enough help?

Yes. Nothing gets solved with what we're doing, it's just a bigger problem getting shuffled a few years into the future.

Edited by MartyPubes on Saturday 9th July 03:46

[Sheets Tabuer]

Wow, I guess my compassion threshold hasn't been breached.

Oh you edited the just "yes" answer.

[Sheets Tabuer]

I agree they need more than food, I'm old enough to have seen throwing food at them is not the answer, they need irrigation, they need farming techniques and they need security so that warlords do no destroy their land.

But right now, this minute they need some food.

[MartyPubes]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I agree they need more than food, I'm old enough to have seen throwing food at them is not the answer, they need irrigation, they need farming techniques and they need security so that warlords do no destroy their land.

But right now, this minute they need some food.

Yeah, and they always will. Brutal though it is, all this 'feed them now' attitude does is make sure there's a bigger pool of people to starve in a decade.

As I've said earlier, I'm not an expert in this area, but I've been to a number of countries in Africa over the years. Even as a lowly tourist, the lack of initiative and enterprise is stark in comparison to almost anywhere else in the world. No-one benefits from being given things, a nation has got to develop as a result of it's inhabitants, not as the result of constant benevolence of others. You're right about the things that are needed - but who would invest in anything there when corruption is so endemic, and in a few years your farm might get taken off you at the whim of whichever tribe takes over.

[Sheets Tabuer]

I have to agree that being constantly provided with food will not lift the people out of the predicament they are in, they need to find their own way out of food poverty and reliance on our handouts will only prolong their suffering.

Having said that we have elevated the population with our donations and as such we are as much to blame, we should concentrate our efforts on educating the people in arable methods and provide them the means to irrigate the land so they can feed themselves.

In the mean time we should not see the population starve.

[MartyPubes]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I have to agree that being constantly provided with food will not lift the people out of the predicament they are in, they need to find their own way out of food poverty and reliance on our handouts will only prolong their suffering.

Having said that we have elevated the population with our donations and as such we are as much to blame, we should concentrate our efforts on educating the people in arable methods and provide them the means to irrigate the land so they can feed themselves.

In the mean time we should not see the population starve.

I don't know why I get images of a hopeless alcoholic in my head, who swears he's going to sort himself out tomorrow, but tonight he's just going to have one last drink...

[carmonk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed, which is why shipping food out at vast expense is not the answer. It was shown on TV last night about this woman who had seven kids. She didn't have enough food so she left a couple of them on their own and went to the refugee camps with the others. Another didn't want her ill child to receive medical treatment because she would have to feed him along with her other four so she prefered to let him die. To these people children are just support mechanisms, not human beings.

[The real Apache]

We are merely prolonging their agony with our good intentions (and glory seeking in some cases)

[eldar]

zollburgers said:

Your solution to world hunger is girl power? To put it simply (although the lyrics won't rhyme) there are too many people there, there are not the resources to support all of them. Perhaps Gerry Halliwell could sort it but I think the problem is that there are too many people there?

Basically yes. Educate women, and they will start to take control of their own lives. That means a lower birth rate and less aids. They learn what contraceptives are, and more importantly get the confidence and ability to use them.

Who decides the birth rate in first world countries?

[odyssey2200]

When you think about the amount of cash that has been given to Africa over the many decades, they should have the best continent in the world.

So WTF has been done with all the money?

Both public donations to charities and aid from the governments of the "developed world" must amount to £trillions over the years.

[The real Apache]

odyssey2200 said:

When you think about the amount of cash that has been given to Africa over the many decades, they should have the best continent in the world.

So WTF has been done with all the money?

Both public donations to charities and aid from the governments of the "developed world" must amount to £trillions over the years.

I get the impression that everyone else feels this way too, the charities might be struggling this year

[Engineer1]

Lancs Jag Boy said:

jbi said:

If you have been to Africa it would all start to make sense. Corruption, lazyness, promiscuity, tribalism, lack of morality and greed.

It's easy to get teary eye'd like my mates wife until she actually went. Within a weekend she didn't have a good word to say for any of them.

It's not a fashionable point of view, but French, British & Belgian Colonies with direct rule would (did) actually deliver education, investment in idustry and infrastructure, sustainable and robust agriculutre and law and order. In many African countries infrastructure investment ended the day after independence.

This isn’t going to happen of course, because empires are so yesterday.

Potentially true, but the Imperial Countries had boundaries imposed on them so warring tribes end up in the same country but two friendly tribes could be on opposite sides of a border.

The population growth thing is mad babies surviving means more adults so while it is a good idea morally to reduce child mortality practically it just means more older kids who now run the risk of starving rather than dying of what ever the latest vaccines have combated.

[uk_vette]

Let them die,
Why not?

Better the famine has a good go at seeing off as many as possible.
Then we won't need to see the same again so soon.
If the famine was allowed to kill of double what would normally be killed of, then whats the problem?
Their governments either can't or don't want to lear, or look after their population.
Black Africa at it's best.
They have had more than enough money over the years, and where does most of it go,,,,,,,,,exactly.
Time to cut away from a lost cause.
Let them die.

V

[Mr_B]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Fave hunting ground of the Catholic church is Africa. Always on hand to give out great advice, like not using condoms thus helping breed more kids they can't feed, and if not born AIDS ridden, then a giving a very high chance they will be when adults.
If one part of the world needs a little regime change, then large parts of Africa could use it.

[uk_vette]

DamienB said:

China may well be the best thing that's ever happened to Africa. Their ever increasing influence there can hardly make things worse, and they certainly play the long game.

.
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I think China are looking past the short term, and looking at the long game.
They are the only hope for Africa, they are the only ones with any serious "spare cash"

I think I remember reading that China has bought up hundreds of thousands of sq. miles of African countries.
They are digging the minerals, however, they are NOT using local labour.
Oh no ! ! !
The Chinese are not that stupid.
They are using their own Chinese to manage, and dig the mineral mines.

V.

Edited by uk_vette on Saturday 9th July 17:19

[uk_vette]

MartyPubes said:

OdramaSwimLaden said:

DamienB said:

China may well be the best thing that's ever happened to Africa. Their ever increasing influence there can hardly make things worse, and they certainly play the long game.

I work a lot in Africa (from Morocco to South Africa) and the general feeling towards the Chinese is one of outright hatred. Sure they bring money in, but they supply their own workforce, tools, cars and infrastructure (they are the new Europeans!!)

The only people who benefit are the politicians, mine owners etc,etc......the African man on the street dislikes the Chinese.

I was going to say. I imagine the Chinese are the Europeans without the 'we were mean to the black people' guilt. From the little I've heard they're going in, getting the natural resources out of the ground, and fk the Africans.

.
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Because the ground minerals are worth some thing, where as the African there are not.
So why should they bother?
I don't see the Chinese as being a "Charity"
They are there strictly on a busines basis.
V.