Major explosion/bomb in Oslo

[Finlandia]

On topic, and on motoring as well, Monday saw the "Rose March" in Oslo, when nearly all Norwegians went out to show their disgust towards the deed and support for those affected.

It also turned out to be a field day for Europark parking attendants, who were out ticketing cars on that very happening.

I say that is pretty low and disgusting.

[Finlandia]

lenats31 said:

He might have been inspired by Lars Von Trier´s movie Dogville. I haven´t seen that movie because it was made by Lars Von Trier. The movie is on B´s list of favourite movies. Now that sure isn´t normal either

Lena

Don't blame yourself too hard

He seems to have lived in Sweden for a while a few years ago, and it seems he did form some very strong opinions during that time. All according to Norsegian and Swedish news.

[Finlandia]

The justice system must be seen as doing something, but as the maximum sentence in Norway is too short, he must be labelled as mentally ill and abraka-dabra, he can be locked away for life.

[Finlandia]

BckFlash said:

Finlandia said:

The justice system must be seen as doing something, but as the maximum sentence in Norway is too short, he must be labelled as mentally ill and abraka-dabra, he can be locked away for life.

Will the sentencing structure in Norway be altered / or has it been altered after this event?

Not that I have heard, all that has been said so far is that the Norwegian society must become even more open.

[Finlandia]

carmonk said:

Open as in liberal or open as in encouraging honest debate?

Both, as I understand it, the former is already and the latter I do not really know.

[Finlandia]

davepoth said:

Bill said:

Reporting his arguments feels like giving them some legitimacy IMO, and is unnecessary. Unless your priority is selling papers.

It's better for his views to be aired and discussed in relatively unbiased media, rather than the extreme fringes of the internet.

Exactly, not being able to openly discuss all matters is a big contributing factor to the deeds he did in the first place.

[Finlandia]

carmonk said:

Finlandia said:

davepoth said:

Bill said:

Reporting his arguments feels like giving them some legitimacy IMO, and is unnecessary. Unless your priority is selling papers.

It's better for his views to be aired and discussed in relatively unbiased media, rather than the extreme fringes of the internet.

Exactly, not being able to openly discuss all matters is a big contributing factor to the deeds he did in the first place.

Unfortunately that's not happening as far as I can see (maybe I'm wrong). It's open debate within society that's needed.

I can't really say about Norway, but in the neighbour to the East there is a party, which was elected into parliament, who tries to openly discuss these problem, only to be silenced, heckled and called nazis. It has even gone so far as to foreign national criminals have been given media time to openly incite hate towards this democratic party, even the PM said "with these rasist views, you can expect violence happening". This will of course only feed the suchlikes of Breivik.

[Finlandia]

Lost soul said:

Jamie VTS said:

Wow the ammount of bullst being produced by some on this thread is disgusting, we are talking about a man who murdered 77 innocent civilians, he is not brave or justified in any way. Have a little respect and decency to those who have lost their loved ones because of this lunatic.

I was amazed at some of the quotes also , anyone who can claim to understand why or what he did are total fruitloops

It's not really that hard to see his thoughts behind the act, he is not happy about how the country is being lead and wants a major change, so he bombs the parliament and wipes out the future of the leading party.

Edited by Finlandia on Monday 16th April 22:00

[Finlandia]

davepoth said:

There is a significant far-right issue across Scandinavia and rather than brushing it under the carpet, it has to be dealt with one way or another.

The far-right issue in Scandinavia is much a result of the politicians and their actions, hence Breivik set out to hurt the political sector and not the multi culture itself.

[Finlandia]

jshell said:

Mermaid said:

Does anyone have figures for prison population here (or Norway/Sweden) by ethnic breakdown, and as a percentage of the population at large?

For Norway: 15% of the prison population was 'foreign' back in 2003. It'll be more by now due to the shengen-influx. 5% of the general population are non-Western.

Compare that with 0.5% foreign prisoners in the US.

Sweden has 27% foreign prsioners!!

28% foreign nationals, which means that 72% are Swedish nationals. But the Swedish Prison and Probation Service is prohibited by law to give an ethnic breakdown of the numbers, both for the foreign as well as the Swedish prisoners.

[Finlandia]

He stated that he is one of three in Norway, and the others will soon follow with their acts.

[Finlandia]

Digger said:

Just wanted to check. Did i read somewhere that he was high on drugs when he was carrying out the shootings, if not before?

He did take some drugs before the shootings, so that he would become more aggressive.

[Finlandia]

sneijder said:

Finlandia said:

He stated that he is one of three in Norway, and the others will soon follow with their acts.

This came out on the day, the police had names within hours. They were younger, late teens, or very early twenties possibly brothers IIRC.

Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

[Finlandia]

Ozzie Osmond said:

TallbutBuxomly said:

I did briefly bring up the issue of immigration in my earlier posts and was promptly accused of being a deranged lunatic buddy of his so really what are we here to discuss?

So if you want to discuss immigration, what points are you wanting to make and how do they relate to the subject matter of this thread - namely the murder of 70+ people in Norway?

According to Breivik, the reason behind the attack was uncontrolled immigration. For this he blamed the parliament/government and the leading party of Norway, so he set out to blow up the parliament and wipe out the future of the leading party.

[Finlandia]

AJS- said:

gunning down innocent members of the public is not the appropriate way to make a political point in a democracy.

But after having tried to make the political points the democratic way, and being branded a racist nazi, then the risk is that extremists like Breivik take to desperate actions.

Note that the multi-culti is not really the issue here, but politicians who take offence on behalf of, or instead of the multi-culti minorities, PC gone OTT.

[Finlandia]

stinkysteve said:

My personal view is that you must engage in dialogue with 'terrorists'.

Being open and having a dialogue is the only way to even start hoping that this will not happen again.
Society must get lucky all the time in preventing terror, terrorists only need to get lucky once in a while.

[Finlandia]

AJS- said:

You could say the same for any ideology or crede, as Islamic fundamentalists do. When it's taken to the extreme of killing scores of children though, it must be punished by law, and that should not include a discussion of immigration policy during a criminal court case.

Of course it must be punished, I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise. But to prevent copycats, or whatever one wants to call it, it's important to be open about the reasons behind the act, and most of all to stop being overly PC about everything.
If one ignores a problem long enough, it will not disappear but it will bite you.

Edited by Finlandia on Thursday 19th April 16:50

[Finlandia]

wollowizard said:

Next time somebody wants to raise awarenes of a political belief or issue and want it discussed in the wider world the thought process is simple, kill kids and everybody will talk about it.

Or take the debate and discuss the matter and be open about both the good and the bad sides, don't just brand them as nazis and silence them, that will just lead to more extremists like Breivik.

[Finlandia]

isaduck said:

I assume you're referring to 'no smoke without fire'? So temporarily putting aside the horror of his actions, his mental state, his prejudices, etc, etc; which small part of his beliefs do you think it would be productive to debate? I'm really not sure.

Debating in court is just silly, the debate must be held on a political level, and as it stands now in Scandinavia, those brave enough to try the democratic way are being silenced and branded as racist nazis. Which gives the likes of Breivik a perfect excuse to...

Preventing acts like this in the future is hard, but an open debate dealing with both the good as well as the bad aspects of multi-culti, OTT PC'ness, etc, is a first and very important step to take.

To pretend as if nothing is wrong in society today is a sure way to a new disaster.

[Finlandia]

Brown has said it, Merkel as well and Sarkozy mentioned it, but they are not in Scandinavia, if anyone dares to mention anything of the sort here, you get branded a racist.
That is what creates the likes of Breivik.