So this is what it feels like to be poor....
Discussion
which means when people visit they have to pay a fortune.
DaGuv said:
What a daft thread this is. Do you have any sense of economics??? Its all relative, you will find that the average swiss doing an average job will take home a lot more when compared to the equivalent Brit.
Why is it daft? Do you know of any other currency against which Sterling has lost roughly half its value in 5 years? If there are any, I've not been there.I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
Kermit power said:
Why is it daft? Do you know of any other currency against which Sterling has lost roughly half its value in 5 years? If there are any, I've not been there.
I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
GBPAUD has also lost nearly half its value making Aus very expensive of late. Rebounding nearly 10c in the last few days though as AUDUSD comes under the kosh.I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
Kermit power said:
I earn a decent salary. It needs to be decent with a non-working wife and three small kids to support, but whilst we can't afford to eat out every night, I've at least never been in a position of having to particularly worry about what we put in the Ocado basket or anything like that.
Until now, that is. We're currently on holiday in Switzerland, and it is f
king horrific! Basically, everything, with the sole exception of petrol, is at least twice the price you'd pay in the UK.
New Zealand rack of lamb? Ocado will sell it to you at £15.99 per kg. Migros in Sion will ask £41 (CHF50) for the same kilo! Some nice, juicy New Zealand Gala apples for pud? £1.65 per kg in the UK, or £3.19 (CHF3.89) here. Maybe you'd like some gnocchi to go with it? That'll be £1.50 for a 500g pack on Ocado, or £3.12 (CHF3.81) in Switzerland.
Of course, you could be forgiven for thinking "Sod it, I'll just go to McDogmeat instead." After all, that's bound to be cheaper? Well, that 99p cheeseburger in the UK will set you back a mere £2.05 over here!!!
I do realise that the value of sterling and pretty much every other currency out there has plummeted against the Swiss Franc in the last few years, but what I don't understand is why the Swiss themselves put up with it?
On the one hand, why are they happy to pay twice the price for exactly the same imported product?
On the other, how long is it going to be before their tourist industry prices itself out of existence? We're here because my in-laws rented a chalet here (and no, I'm not comparing ski resort prices above, before anyone asks!), but I can safely guarantee that none of us will be back, since nice as it is, it has nothing that the French Alps can't offer at a significant discount, and I would assume Germany and Austria to be in a similar position for those preferring the barbaric tongue?
Most brits going to Switzerland these days save money by only booking a one way ticket.....Until now, that is. We're currently on holiday in Switzerland, and it is f
king horrific! Basically, everything, with the sole exception of petrol, is at least twice the price you'd pay in the UK.New Zealand rack of lamb? Ocado will sell it to you at £15.99 per kg. Migros in Sion will ask £41 (CHF50) for the same kilo! Some nice, juicy New Zealand Gala apples for pud? £1.65 per kg in the UK, or £3.19 (CHF3.89) here. Maybe you'd like some gnocchi to go with it? That'll be £1.50 for a 500g pack on Ocado, or £3.12 (CHF3.81) in Switzerland.
Of course, you could be forgiven for thinking "Sod it, I'll just go to McDogmeat instead." After all, that's bound to be cheaper? Well, that 99p cheeseburger in the UK will set you back a mere £2.05 over here!!!
I do realise that the value of sterling and pretty much every other currency out there has plummeted against the Swiss Franc in the last few years, but what I don't understand is why the Swiss themselves put up with it?
On the one hand, why are they happy to pay twice the price for exactly the same imported product?
On the other, how long is it going to be before their tourist industry prices itself out of existence? We're here because my in-laws rented a chalet here (and no, I'm not comparing ski resort prices above, before anyone asks!), but I can safely guarantee that none of us will be back, since nice as it is, it has nothing that the French Alps can't offer at a significant discount, and I would assume Germany and Austria to be in a similar position for those preferring the barbaric tongue?
Kermit power said:
Why is it daft? Do you know of any other currency against which Sterling has lost roughly half its value in 5 years? If there are any, I've not been there.
I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
If I'm honest, the same thing has happened in French ski resorts, only it's less about the exchange rate, and more about the fact that the restaurants have realised ... "they're top income families with an unlimited skiing lunch budget, so its €30 for spag bol". Furthermore, most ski resorts are now owned by public companies or investment funds which charge high rates to support their profits. See Verbier.I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
When I used to go skiing as a kid, 15 years ago or something, our mum would give us €10 for lunch and pack us off to ski school. There would be change, having demolished half the restaurant in cheese, coke, spag bol and sweets. Back then the exchange rate was also 65p/€. So thats £6.50 or so for lunch at the top of a mountain.
Now, its 86-90p/€ and it is at least €30 for a ridiculously mean portion of normally quite s
t food. If you ask me, its the influence of the rich from other continents inflitrating what they see as "a Western Sport that rich people do" and therefore their perception is that everything must be reassuringly expensive.I agree though, it must be difficult if you're not earning in Swiss Francs to come here and spend, and yes McDonalds is a rip off.
Jonathan27 said:
Tax works differntly over there. You have low income tax, but high purchase tax.
Don't forget they also pay tax on their worth - so life in Switzerland isn't cheap for anyone.But, they look after their own well with those taxes and if you can afford to live there you will be assured a good quality of life.
They don't want freeloaders, paupers or anyone who can't/won't contribute to their society living there, they would rather they go elsewhere.
IMO they are a lot closer to doing it right than we are.
Ribol said:
Jonathan27 said:
Tax works differntly over there. You have low income tax, but high purchase tax.
Don't forget they also pay tax on their worth - so life in Switzerland isn't cheap for anyone.But, they look after their own well with those taxes and if you can afford to live there you will be assured a good quality of life.
They don't want freeloaders, paupers or anyone who can't/won't contribute to their society living there, they would rather they go elsewhere.
IMO they are a lot closer to doing it right than we are.
Dubai said:
Kermit power said:
Why is it daft? Do you know of any other currency against which Sterling has lost roughly half its value in 5 years? If there are any, I've not been there.
I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
GBPAUD has also lost nearly half its value making Aus very expensive of late. Rebounding nearly 10c in the last few days though as AUDUSD comes under the kosh.I wasn't aware this was the case before coming here, and I didn't look too closely, as my in-laws are paying for the chalet. Now that we have seen the prices, none of us will be back other than to fly into Geneva and bugger off over the French border, and from what I've seen on here so far, the large majority of other posters are in agreement.
Whilst the fundamentals of exchange rates are simple enough, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to discuss regarding why the Swiss tolerate such a high exchange rate.
Pmsl at the thread. Welcome to Switzerland 
I can see the OP has never followed one of my thread or posts about this place.
There is a reason I call the airline NaziAir and the country NaziLand
Basically the poster a cpl of posts up is correct: they dont want poor people here, they dont really want black people here, they dont want unskilled people here, they definately dont want poor, unskilled black people here. They dont like too many Germans being here. They think the Italians are idiots, even their own not-quite-Italian Italians. They dont care about the rest of Europe or the world in pretty much any way shape or form so long as they can keep trundling along. Givne that they have followed this mantra very successfully for the past 700yrs then I would say they are doing something right.
There are also deep deep schisms in Swiss society. A huge rural/urban divide between very international, glamourous and metropolitan Zurich, Bern, Basel, Lausanne, Geneva and the rural Swiss.
Direct democracy ensures change happens very slowly here and its frankly just the way Swiss society likes it.
Money wise. The exchange rate moving over the last years has made the place 50% more expensive in the last 2 yrs alone. A quick example of that in real terms: in march I transfered 10,000 Chuffs into GBP and it got me £6450. I just transferred 9,000 Chuffs this lunchtime and it got me £7050. That is just in 4 months. None of that is anything to do with the Swiss, their internal prices havent changed, so in many ways that has had no effect for the Swiss domestically at all. A side effect of it though is a large increase in the amount of Swiss, esp. young Swiss leaving the country and going abroad travelling. It has suddenly become very affordable for them.
The high prices themselves are because the Swiss have very low taxes, I currently pay 16%. Instead they have high sales tax, so you got more dosh in your pocket, but things cost more. The base salaries are also better here, you can effectively work on doubling the equivalent UK salary. Against that though you have to factor in your own health expenses and the housing cost. Zurich is in a different league to London on the housing cost. It is hugely painful, but that has only really come about in the last 5 years. There are real concerns now, to the extent that the student population of Zurich has largely been driven out, the dynamic of the city is changing as it becomes more and more financial and business orientated as more and more firms have moved there over the last 5 yrs. More wealth coming in = pushing prices up. Zurich also has physical limitations in increasing its size, it is very restricted in physically growing. This pushes the cost of land up more. I did some calculations earlier this week along this after talking to some colleagues and on the figures we worked out, it was roughly along the lines of on average you were about 10% better off in Switzerland.
But the Swiss arent stupid. They know exactly how much cheaper it is across in France and Germany...where do you think many of them do their shopping at the weekend? Loading up in Konstanz or going across into France. The VAT reclaiming is a big time activity here.
But the bottom line is that Switzerland has always been like this. Its always been top of the table in the high price life. As an old joke goes...Switzerland is an island that just happens to find itself surrounded by land.
I can see the OP has never followed one of my thread or posts about this place.There is a reason I call the airline NaziAir and the country NaziLand
Basically the poster a cpl of posts up is correct: they dont want poor people here, they dont really want black people here, they dont want unskilled people here, they definately dont want poor, unskilled black people here. They dont like too many Germans being here. They think the Italians are idiots, even their own not-quite-Italian Italians. They dont care about the rest of Europe or the world in pretty much any way shape or form so long as they can keep trundling along. Givne that they have followed this mantra very successfully for the past 700yrs then I would say they are doing something right.
There are also deep deep schisms in Swiss society. A huge rural/urban divide between very international, glamourous and metropolitan Zurich, Bern, Basel, Lausanne, Geneva and the rural Swiss.
Direct democracy ensures change happens very slowly here and its frankly just the way Swiss society likes it.
Money wise. The exchange rate moving over the last years has made the place 50% more expensive in the last 2 yrs alone. A quick example of that in real terms: in march I transfered 10,000 Chuffs into GBP and it got me £6450. I just transferred 9,000 Chuffs this lunchtime and it got me £7050. That is just in 4 months. None of that is anything to do with the Swiss, their internal prices havent changed, so in many ways that has had no effect for the Swiss domestically at all. A side effect of it though is a large increase in the amount of Swiss, esp. young Swiss leaving the country and going abroad travelling. It has suddenly become very affordable for them.
The high prices themselves are because the Swiss have very low taxes, I currently pay 16%. Instead they have high sales tax, so you got more dosh in your pocket, but things cost more. The base salaries are also better here, you can effectively work on doubling the equivalent UK salary. Against that though you have to factor in your own health expenses and the housing cost. Zurich is in a different league to London on the housing cost. It is hugely painful, but that has only really come about in the last 5 years. There are real concerns now, to the extent that the student population of Zurich has largely been driven out, the dynamic of the city is changing as it becomes more and more financial and business orientated as more and more firms have moved there over the last 5 yrs. More wealth coming in = pushing prices up. Zurich also has physical limitations in increasing its size, it is very restricted in physically growing. This pushes the cost of land up more. I did some calculations earlier this week along this after talking to some colleagues and on the figures we worked out, it was roughly along the lines of on average you were about 10% better off in Switzerland.
But the Swiss arent stupid. They know exactly how much cheaper it is across in France and Germany...where do you think many of them do their shopping at the weekend? Loading up in Konstanz or going across into France. The VAT reclaiming is a big time activity here.
But the bottom line is that Switzerland has always been like this. Its always been top of the table in the high price life. As an old joke goes...Switzerland is an island that just happens to find itself surrounded by land.
I'm from Switzerland (south, italian speaking region). Here prices are a little cheaper but still very expensive if you try to compare to UK.
While prices do sound expensive, I guess people over here are used to that. Wages are also much higher than neighboring countries like italy (very often they are at least twice as much). And as it was already said, the pound now is worth next to nothing while the swiss franc is sky high, so no wonder you find everything expensive.
The very first time I went to the UK, one pound was 3.30 CHF. Now going to the UK on holiday is cheaper than Thailand (but I would still go to Thailand ;-) )
While prices do sound expensive, I guess people over here are used to that. Wages are also much higher than neighboring countries like italy (very often they are at least twice as much). And as it was already said, the pound now is worth next to nothing while the swiss franc is sky high, so no wonder you find everything expensive.
The very first time I went to the UK, one pound was 3.30 CHF. Now going to the UK on holiday is cheaper than Thailand (but I would still go to Thailand ;-) )
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