Ending Benefits Dependency.:Restore our Countries Wealth.

[don4l]

rover 623gsi said:

yes it will be nice if everywhere is clean and tidy but what you are suggesting is that people should work for (much) less than the minimum wage. I don't think anyone should be made to work for their benefits. If there is a job that needs doing then people should be paid for doing it.

What is wrong with working for less than the minimum wage?

I did it for the first few years of my working life.

Don
--

[groak]

Getragdogleg said:

"bang bang" "security, got another one for you to bury"

Well yeah, there IS that. But, more seriously, who the feck IS going to employ a massive army of zombies (apart from as extras in zombie films).

Personally I'm happier paying some tax to keep them far away from my workplace.

[Getragdogleg]

groak said:

Getragdogleg said:

"bang bang" "security, got another one for you to bury"

Well yeah, there IS that. But, more seriously, who the feck IS going to employ a massive army of zombies (apart from as extras in zombie films).

Personally I'm happier paying some tax to keep them far away from my workplace.

Fair enough but the problem is that fewer of them are keeping to their side of the social contract and staying away from the ones who are paying for them through tax, tax and more tax.

Once you start to break the circle and you are not paying to keep people idle the numbers of useless wasters will fall, either through the attrition of death or the fact that the supported lifestyle will not be there.

We must break the chain or it will get much worse, they breed more than the supporting class and each subsequent generation falls in to the same traps of boredom leading to poor self worth that leads into drugs/booze then crime and repeat till fade.

[groak]

Getragdogleg said:

Fair enough but the problem is that fewer of them are keeping to their side of the social contract and staying away from the ones who are paying for them through tax, tax and more tax.

Once you start to break the circle and you are not paying to keep people idle the numbers of useless wasters will fall, either through the attrition of death or the fact that the supported lifestyle will not be there.

We must break the chain or it will get much worse, they breed more than the supporting class and each subsequent generation falls in to the same traps of boredom leading to poor self worth that leads into drugs/booze then crime and repeat till fade.

No-one has the solution to this, but everyone knows what it is. Tony Blair knew it in '97. And o what a pity he was lying about implementing it, because 14 years on its firstfruits would be emerging visibly into society. 'Education Education Education'. Very well rounded and educated people, one way or another, are not antisocial, and are generally very well adapted to surviving perfectly adequately in this or any other society. Yes there may be exceptions, but very few. And I don't just mean academically educated.

Like alex ferguson's programme at Man Utd in the early 90's. Took a few years to become effective, but boy, it certainly DID do, didn't it?

The details are the hard bit. Do you just take the babies away from these idiots and place them in high quality care? Probably. etc etc etc.

But that's a not inexpensive 20 year plan. And for my money the best and only one if you really want an end to all this parasite and mass antisocial krap.

[anonymous-user]

groak said:

Well yeah, there IS that. But, more seriously, who the feck IS going to employ a massive army of zombies (apart from as extras in zombie films).

Personally I'm happier paying some tax to keep them far away from my workplace.

Head in the sand. No amount of taxes will stop them coming to find you when the zombies next riot though.
Nobody said we'd send these fks into our offices, hell that's the kind of 'jobseekers' st we've been trying and failing at for years. No, put them to work, manual work, mundane graft, where dress code isn't important and there isn't a P.C in sight, on the proviso that their benefits are entirely performance related. No show - no dough!

[VPower]

Problem is too much vested interest in the situation as it stands.
Police, Judges, Lawyers, social services, unemployment departments and last but no leasts MP's.

What would they all do if we cured the problems???


I sent my MP a suggestion, to move the money we spend on these scroungers and give it to Councils.
If you turn up and do some clearing up, cutting hedges etc.. etc.. you get the min wage.
He ignored me!

[Dixie68]

rover 623gsi said:

yes it will be nice if everywhere is clean and tidy but what you are suggesting is that people should work for (much) less than the minimum wage. I don't think anyone should be made to work for their benefits. If there is a job that needs doing then people should be paid for doing it.

Edited by rover 623gsi on Sunday 4th September 18:45

That's fair enough, if they don't want to work for less than minimum wage then I won't force them... they just get no benefits. Anyway, as far as I know 'minimum wage' is the amount of money employers aren't allowed to go below when paying their employees wages, but these people aren't employees they are people on benefits - minimum wage doesn't apply.
The only other option is as above; workhouses.

[nm231]

oyster said:

nm231 said:

What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.

Why would you want to do that?
I'd want to employ hard-working, educated, loyal and trust-worthy staff. I do not care whether they were born in Malawi or Manchester. Do you prefer lazy indigenous people?

Just to clear what I said up a bit, I haven't got a problem with the hard working immigrant, educated or otherwise who do the poorly paid jobs that most chavs wouldnt dream of doing, I think their great just a shame that people on the dole thing their above it.
I have a problem with lazy immigrants who come here and live off our benefit system and I have a problem with things like shop windows advertising in polish that they will help you sign on when you first get to this country.

I dont understand why anybody would pick living off benefits as their lifestyle, living off £110 a fortnight. I had to do it for a month when I was made redundant it just made me work harder at finding a job so I could afford the things I wanted and not have to step foot inside that office again.

[powerstroke]

groak said:

One Tuesday afternoon you look up from your desk, and there in front of you is a strange smelly dishevelled shifty looking creature.

" hi!! I'm Weasel! I'm a feral junkie! I need a fix every 4 hours or I start 'rattling' and behaving chaotically and inappropriately unable to focus on anything other than how to get my next fix. I'm just out of jail a week, where I did 6 months of a 12 month stretch for housebreaking. Pled guilty and asked for 15 other offences to be taken into consideration. I managed to get my hands on dribs and drabs of smack in the pokey, but now I'm out I've got my full-on habit going again. I don't just break into houses, though. I steal from anywhere and anybody I can, including cars, handbag snatches, and even my ma's jewellery and sister's MP3 from the house. Sometimes I deal tiny amounts just to get a hit. But President Steffan says I'm not to get any more free methadone or benefits, so I'm going to have to get far more money as well as just my drug money which is why I'm in YOUR office looking for a job!!

I'm 27, but I've never had a job, like my dad -God rest him - before me. Booze was his problem. Killed him in the end. They say my granda had a job in the steelworks, but Mrs Thatcher put paid to it, and no-one in the whole street ever worked again. I've been using since i was 17, and am a HepC and B carrier, but I definitely don't have The Virus - at least I don't think I do - so you don't have to worry on that score! The way I live means I keep erratic hours, and of course now I'm homeless it won't help either, but I might be able to get in on time occasionally if I've got kit, otherwise well, mate, you know the score, I'll just have to go out grafting till I'm sorted.

If you like me and you think I'd fit in well in your office environment there's THOUSANDS like me, and 100's of thousands if not MILLIONS of other career criminals, antisocials and other beasts, demons and parasites who President Steffan's taking off benefits. So gissajob, mister. I promise I won't steal from or infect your staff! On my kid's eyes! I went to try for a job in that barstward Groak's office, but he said the only thing he was prepared to do was give me 50 quid a week to stay the feck away from his office so here I am, mate. Weasel. At your service! GISSAJOB!!"

Hmm So its all Thathers fault !!!! jeesssus they are one screwed up lot of folks north of the border if they think like that And if the feral underclass in scotland are given that sort of excuse by hard working and otherwise seemingly sensible
Scots!!! oh and the people who get the hostel places in my world... mr and ms weasel woudent be able to breed any more little rat weasels at the uk tax payers expense .....

Edited by powerstroke on Monday 5th September 07:53

[cymtriks]

rover 623gsi said:

cymtriks said:

Secondly make job club compulsory 9-5 six days a week for anyone claiming while unemployed. Missed hours equals lost payments. A creche will be provided, a sectretary will be provided. No one will care if you turn up and do nothing but turn up you will if want benefits until the day you reach state pension age.

You are going to need some very large building to host all those job clubs!

There are plenty of empty offices in every town. Add to that school halls, village halls, church halls, etc and it could be done.

Currently at under 3 million, a population of 60 million and 100 sqft of space foe everyone in the system we would need 5 sqft per head of population. So for Gloucester we'd need 600000 sqft. I found 250000 sqft in the first few Google hits for Gloucester office space to rent.

It is doable.

There is always the possibility to do three shifts a day like people who have jobs often have to do.

[rover 623gsi]

and who's going to pay for all the running costs?

[rover 623gsi]

Dixie68 said:

That's fair enough, if they don't want to work for less than minimum wage then I won't force them... they just get no benefits. Anyway, as far as I know 'minimum wage' is the amount of money employers aren't allowed to go below when paying their employees wages, but these people aren't employees they are people on benefits - minimum wage doesn't apply.
The only other option is as above; workhouses.

except if they are doing a job then, by definition, they are no longer unemployed. They are working. And as a result they should receive all the benefits of working such as being paid (at least) the minimum wage.

[mrmr96]

Getragdogleg said:

You are largely correct except there is one problem, What will everyone do ? there are no-where near enough jobs to go round,

Get the government to create jobs and make them earn their benefits.

Instead of giving them money for free, give them money to do something useful, like paint a playground, clean a street, pick up litter in the woods etc. I can't think of really good ideas right now, but the point is there's plenty of stuff that needs doing and at the moment they are paid to do nothing, so why not pay them to do something useful?

[turbobloke]

rover 623gsi said:

I don't think anyone should be made to work for their benefits. If there is a job that needs doing then people should be paid for doing it.

I don't think anyone should be given free money without having to work for it. If there is money that needs to be given then people should work for it.

And not money either, rent vouchers, food vouchers and clothing vouchers. PlayStations and plasma TVs and fags and wacky backy and cider can be worked for they're not essential.

Paying people, those who are capable of work, to take up a workshy couch potato lifestyle is totally ridiculous.

[Eric Mc]

nm231 said:

What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.

How?

Which immigrants?

[groak]

In reality, there are a good number of claimants who no-one has to worry about. They are able independent people and they'll only pass through the system temporarily whilst they get themselves another job.

Then there's another category, who are the large number who by definition are of below average ability and below average everything else too, and are much less able to get themselves sorted, although with a sensible helping hand they can easily do whatever job is provided for them because they are most certainly willing and able to work and genuinely want to.

Then there's a relatively small category who are genuinely fubared in one way or another by serious debilitating mental or physical problems. There's even some of THEM who would be delighted to do some kind of job, and possibly some types of job , or job arrangement they can cope with. But it just has to be accepted that some of them CAN'T join in and so they just need carried by benefits and we'd be less of a society if we didn't carry them so that's that.

Then there's the last category. The scroungers, grifters, self inflicted sick, antisocials, and barstwards of 100 other categories. You make their lives an unrelenting and unpleasant hell in 100 different ways, BUT......they also have endless and continual opportunity to leave this hell at any time they decide they want to. Any effort at playing along pretending to leave it results in immediate return to it. Oh yes, reasonable and sensible support when they make the decision to leave hell, but absolute ruthlessness if they don't.

[thinfourth2]

nm231 said:

What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.

step away from the daily mail

I'd far rather we deport the home grown lazy scum

[OllieC]

thinfourth2 said:

nm231 said:

What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.

step away from the daily mail

I'd far rather we deport the home grown lazy scum

If there werent so many jobs going (because of our indigenous workshy so and so's) we wouldnt have such high levels of immigration.

I dont see why so many people cannot grasp this.

[tomw2000]

As metioned previously on similar threads, the 'poverty line' is too high in the UK.

And it's this that is used to calculate benefits. i.e. no-one should have to exist on <60% (yes, SIXTY!)of median income. This is clearly meaningless and explains why many of us see the current benefits as too generous.

See here for more:

http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2010/12/first-...

[Digga]

rover 623gsi said:

minimum wage.

rover 623gsi said:

minimum wage.

There's a pattern here...

We have the problem, and so does Europe: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/09/05/uk-europe...

Reuters said:

with the scope for fiscal and monetary stimulus all but exhausted, politicians might be expected to grasp the nettle and push through reforms to improve the supply side of the economy -- policies such as making it easier to hire and fire, promoting greater competition and investing more in training.

Why do we have to have a minumum wage? Why is a piece of legislation so recent held up as being sacrosanct beyond reason?