Cameron still doesn't get the point on immigration...

[69 coupe]

thinfourth2 said:

Step away from the daily wail our home grown scum is just as bad

I don't give a fk where someone comes from as long as they pull their wieght

Even if there not entitled to be here?

[69 coupe]

Why are students allowed to get visas when studying here for all their family there families family & so on.

If there that lonely go back to visit your folks, or do your studying in your own country.
That is one rule I'd stop today.

[Digga]

thinfourth2 said:

Digga said:

Sadly, immigration without control under Labour has saddled us with a disproportionate measure of the worst immigrants.

Step away from the daily wail our home grown scum is just as bad

I don't give a fk where someone comes from as long as they pull their wieght

Never bought the Daily Wail, but do have freinds on the force who stress the magnitude (not discussed for fear of breaching PC ideals) of the problems we have imported.

There a whole gangs of immigrants - Somalis, Iraqiis etc. - in UK jails. They can't separate them, in case they're attacked, so have to house them with their 'own' and hence, the problem perpetuates. It makes the job of sorting out our home-gorwn recidivists all the more impossible, given the already atrained resources. Look at the proportion of immigrants in the prison population.

[thinfourth2]

69 coupe said:

thinfourth2 said:

Step away from the daily wail our home grown scum is just as bad

I don't give a fk where someone comes from as long as they pull their wieght

Even if there not entitled to be here?

Under my measurements on entitlement we would be deporting white british born chavs

So how would you define entitlement

[Kermit power]

sjn2004 said:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cameron-says-tighten-immi...

I'm not sure if he's just playing to the crowd but he needs to start listening. Discussing the current situation with various people the problem isn't with non EU migrants but rather the few million EU workers who turned up over the last few years all eager to work for half your pay and no questions asked. I guess being a europhile he doesn't want to wake up and smell the coffee!

We now have a situation with mass youth unemployment as the lower skilled jobs are all taken by a none stop conveyor belt of EU migrants. The double edged sword to this is that by taking low paid jobs the EU migrants will get tax credit/child benefit etc so we end up paying benefits twice. Once for a young unemployed British person and secondly top up payments for a family from the EU. Another problem is that many of the economic migrants from the EU come here to work for a short/medium period and spend little money within our economy.

If people (the journalists forming the OP's opinions more than the OP himself) would do a bit of fundamental research before writing baseless drivel such as this, the whole country would be much better off!

We do not have a "situation with mass youth unemployment as the lower skilled jobs are taken by EU immigrants".

We have relatively low youth unemployment in historic terms, especially considering the economic cycle. Everything else is down to statistics.

There are currently around 400,000 18-24yr olds claiming unemployment benefits. In a largely Pole-free September 1985, that figure stood at over a million.

Further to this, the Office for National Statistics uses a frankly bizarre way of calculating youth unemployment. It gives it as a percentage of economically active youths. This excludes students. Let's say you have 10 unemployed youths, 20 students and 70 working youths. According to the ONS, that would be a youth unemployment rate of 14.3% (10/70). Now let's move down the line a few years. Government efforts to get more youths into higher education have been a success, so you've now got 10 unemployed youths, 25 students and 65 working youths. Although the total number of youths is unchanged, and the number of unemployed youths is unchanged, according to the ONS, youth unemployment has risen to 15.4% (10/65).

All of the above is straight statistics. That's before you get into the less tangible questions, such as how many British companies employing British people have maybe stayed in business because they have access to a harder-working, lower-cost labour source for part of their activities?

[speedyman]

Victor McDade said:

gsfrontera said:

You think so do you. Its got nothing to do with the fact they will work for half the wage that UK people will, and then send it back home because its still a lot compared to what they can earn back home, and how do you know how hard these poles work? Worked with any recently? I have, and believe me they are not all they are cracked up to be. Their work needs constant checking as they are not used to completing work to the standard that the UK requires. Its people like you with your unproved crap narrow minded left wing statements that fk this country up, not the immigrants. You wanna shut up till you know what your on about!

But they are entitled to the minimum wage just like anyone else. So how are they driving wages down? Most eastern Europeans I've come into contact with work in the service industry - supermarkets, fast food outlets, hotels, restaurants etc. Are we really suggesting that if they were not around then wages would be £12/hour for these jobs, because after all 'Poles work for half the wage of a UK person'.

Edited by Victor McDade on Monday 10th October 12:50

Been on a building site lately, all the skills are represented by Eastern europeans and they have had an effect on lowering wages on jobs above the minimum wage as a mate of mine who actually does work on a site knows.

The problem is not immigration, but the numbers in such a short period. Schools don't even have the language skills to teach the kids and why should they the government never prepared for the masses of migrants which arrived from the EU and beyond.

Plus the Uk and Ireland did not have transitional restricts on numbers of migrants that can come to the uk from all the new countries which joined the EU. Bad mistake there.

[69 coupe]

thinfourth2 said:

69 coupe said:

thinfourth2 said:

Step away from the daily wail our home grown scum is just as bad

I don't give a fk where someone comes from as long as they pull their wieght

Even if there not entitled to be here?

Under my measurements on entitlement we would be deporting white british born chavs

So how would you define entitlement

So your still saying its okay to have people here working who have no entitlement to be here?

If this country wasn't full of the Third/Second World, the white British born chavs would have & be made to work. The position for jobs/housing/health wouldn't be so stacked against the home-grown when their having to compete with 10 illegals sharing a room.

[thinfourth2]

69 coupe said:

So your still saying its okay to have people here working who have no entitlement to be here?

If this country wasn't full of the Third/Second World, the white British born chavs would have & be made to work.

you actually belive that

[blindswelledrat]

I think all of you people with a "they're taking our jobs" mentality are incredibly deluded.
If we 'sent 'em all back' I am confident our economy would implode.
You try and find an English person to do any of the following jobs within 50 miles of London:
Waiter, Bin Man, Labourer, porters, catering, cleaning etc etc.

We have minimum wage so they can't 'drive the wage down'.

You have the problem arse about face. Your average UK employer employing low-wage workers would infinitely prefer to have reliable hard working English people to fill thier jobs. There just aren't any because the benefits system is too cosy.
DOn't blame the foreigners for that!

[69 coupe]

thinfourth2 said:

you actually belive that

Do you never answer a question?

[blindswelledrat]

69 coupe said:

Do you never answer a question?

You have got your facts arse about face.
If our 'scum' got off thier arse and worked, there would be no spare jobs to attract the economic migrants.
Its is the excess work that brings them here.
THey don't take our jobs, they do the jobs that we won't do.

[thinfourth2]

69 coupe said:

thinfourth2 said:

you actually belive that

Do you never answer a question?

In my book someone who is willing to work and payes taxes has way more entitlement to be here then a 3rd generation chav who has never worked a day in their life.

I don't give a fk what colour, creed, relgion, sexuality, nationality they are. If they work and don't cause hassle let them stay

The white english chav with 100 plus criminal convictions and never worked a day in their life deport the st to atlantus


So how do you define entitlement to be here?

[MKnight702]

Victor McDade said:

gsfrontera said:

You think so do you. Its got nothing to do with the fact they will work for half the wage that UK people will, and then send it back home because its still a lot compared to what they can earn back home, and how do you know how hard these poles work? Worked with any recently? I have, and believe me they are not all they are cracked up to be. Their work needs constant checking as they are not used to completing work to the standard that the UK requires. Its people like you with your unproved crap narrow minded left wing statements that fk this country up, not the immigrants. You wanna shut up till you know what your on about!

But they are entitled to the minimum wage just like anyone else. So how are they driving wages down? Most eastern Europeans I've come into contact with work in the service industry - supermarkets, fast food outlets, hotels, restaurants etc. Are we really suggesting that if they were not around then wages would be £12/hour for these jobs, because after all 'Poles work for half the wage of a UK person'.

Edited by Victor McDade on Monday 10th October 12:50

To be honest, I think it's got everything to do with the fact that the immigrants will work for half the cost of a domestic worker, but the problem isn't the willingness of the immigrants to work, but the unwillingness of the domestic worker to "get out of bed for less than £120 per day". We seem to have bred a generation of people who think that the world owes them a living, low skilled and under-educated chavs who would prefer to live to a high standard on benefits rather than get the same or less by actually having to work for it. Until the benefits system is reviewed so that it performs the saftey net function that it was designed for and isn't seen as a lifestyle choice I can't see things improving either.

[Kermit power]

blindswelledrat said:

You have got your facts arse about face.
If our 'scum' got off their arse and worked, there would be no spare jobs to attract the economic migrants.
Its is the excess work that brings them here.
THey don't take our jobs, they do the jobs that we won't do.

Or, more optimistically, if our scum got off their arses and worked, they'd generate more wealth, drive down benefit costs, and create even more opportunities for hard-working immigrants to come and work alongside them growing the economy.

I agree with you 100%. The problem isn't the immigrants, it's those happy to just sit on the dole, and the system which allows them to be happy doing so.

There's still fewer than half the unemployed youths now than in the mid-eighties though, which rather blows the OP's original argument.

[aizvara]

Bing o said:

It really is simple:

No admittance without a job or a real place of education (ie not some sham language college in Bradfordistan).

If you lose your job, you have a month to find another one, or you GTFO.

All migrant workers must show that they have private healthcare on admission.

No admittance to relatives without a job, or eductaion place.

Apply it to everyone without a britiash passport including EU citizens.

Job jobbed.

Harsh. Perhaps its time I got out of the UK before this sort of public opinion leads to isolationism, and likely facing similar hurdles when emigrating to other EU countries.

[69 coupe]

thinfourth2 said:

In my book someone who is willing to work and payes taxes has way more entitlement to be here then a 3rd generation chav who has never worked a day in their life.

I don't give a fk what colour, creed, relgion, sexuality, nationality they are. If they work and don't cause hassle let them stay

The white english chav with 100 plus criminal convictions and never worked a day in their life deport the st to atlantus


So how do you define entitlement to be here?

But they're still not entitled to be here? Just like you or I can't rock up on the doorstep of the USA, UAE or 100's of others.
The White chavs (are their no ethnic chavs?)in your book just like mine counts for nothing, I'd still force them to work.

[Kermit power]

69 coupe said:

But they're still not entitled to be here? Just like you or I can't rock up on the doorstep of the USA, UAE or 100's of others.

You can't rock up on the doorstep in the US, UAE or others, but equally their citizens can't just rock up here, either.

You can, however, just rock up on the doorstep in Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Romania or wherever else you feel like it that has a bilateral agreement with the UK on these things.

Immigrants don't cause unemployment in this country. People being unwilling to work because benefits are too attractive causes unemployment in this country.

[69 coupe]

Kermit power said:

You can't rock up on the doorstep in the US, UAE or others, but equally their citizens can't just rock up here, either.

You can, however, just rock up on the doorstep in Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Romania or wherever else you feel like it that has a bilateral agreement with the UK on these things.

Immigrants don't cause unemployment in this country. People being unwilling to work because benefits are too attractive causes unemployment in this country.

And that's legal which I have no problem with but when it takes 10+ years to deport someone, that I have no truck with.

[uk_vette]

One of the requirements for non EU persons immigrants UK to live, is they must pass English speaking tests. Cambridge A1 or above.
Now this is fine, I agree with this.
However, why is it just restricted to non EU immigrants?
There are just as many EU entrants who cant speak English, why shouldn't they also be required to pass the A1 Cambridge English test.

The classic axample is the Polish, they arrive in UK, work hard, but many of them don't speak a word of English.
If Poland was not in the EU, then they would have to pass the English test.
The English test requirement is applicable to non EU immigrants, where English is not their native language.

My point is, if you want ( any one ) to come and work in UK, then you must all pass an English test.

vette

[Victor McDade]

Bing o said:

It really is simple:

No admittance without a job or a real place of education (ie not some sham language college in Bradfordistan).

If you lose your job, you have a month to find another one, or you GTFO.

All migrant workers must show that they have private healthcare on admission.

No admittance to relatives without a job, or eductaion place.

Apply it to everyone without a britiash passport including EU citizens.

Job jobbed.

How is it 'simple' when all three major parties here are europhiles? Most of what you've written above is against European law. Various political leaders over the years have got us deeper and deeper into Europe and now its tough st if you don't like it. If you don't like the way things are run then move (which you've obviously done, wise move).

Not all of us can though due to family and work commitments.