If the Euro fails, are we all in for a bad shock?

[WhoseGeneration]

V88Dicky said:

WhoseGeneration said:

0a said:

Front page of the Express tomorrow... (!)

Well, let's get it over with then.
Better go for first strike?
Will the USA release the codes though?

Eh?

Although there is some debate about this in terms of who does have control, Trident launch codes.

[hademall]

This is my first post so dont be too hard on me. Ive read the previous comments on the "solution" to EU's problems.

My view is that regardless of whichever solution (or mixture of), is applied, the EU will muddle through for a couple of years and perhaps then completely break up or re-invent itself, perhaps in 2 teirs as has been suggested for some time.

However, my biggest concern is how we ge out of the hole we are in, and by "we" I mean the world. I just dont see where growth is going to come from, because most major economies - including China, are in the doldrums - and if we do end up borrowing money from China (one can only speculate how smug the Chinese mandarins are feeling now that the once powrefull "west" is coming cap in hand - how the mighty have fallen), rest assured China will exact a very heavy price both financially and strategically, in my opinion, whilst at the same time, fighting for the same new emerging markets, meaning competativeness will be paramount and the "west" meanwhile, is overburdened with bureaucracy, plus min. wage etc making it uncompetative.

Its going to be a very long hard struggle and I fully agree with those who say it may take 5 - 10 years for us to get back to anywhere near respectable growh figures and in the process, its going to be very painful.

Sorry to make my 1st post so "doom laden" but I really do feel we need to have realistic expectations for the future.

[zthomasz]

WhoseGeneration said:

Although there is some debate about this in terms of who does have control, Trident launch codes.

Trident doesn't have launch codes. It has "Letters of Last Resort".

[WhoseGeneration]

zthomasz said:

Trident doesn't have launch codes. It has "Letters of Last Resort".

Thankyou for enlightenment, however, I was not referencing a situation where the UK had been subject to attack, "first strike" was what I said.
Now, is the UK allowed first strike upon any European Nation?

[zthomasz]

WhoseGeneration said:

Thankyou for enlightenment, however, I was not referencing a situation where the UK had been subject to attack, "first strike" was what I said.

You said , "will the usa release the codes" then clarifying "trident launch codes" referencing the american "gold codes". The british equivalent are the "letters of last resort", how they work and in what circumstances are irrelevant, they are the british equivalent. A pre-emptive strike would work in the UK (as in the USA) without any kind of 'codes'. A simple order would be given.

WhoseGeneration said:

Now, is the UK allowed first strike upon any European Nation?

The UK is a sovereign nation isn't it? Why wouldn't it be able to launch a first strike? It has absolutely nothing to do with any other nation. The UK can use any and all weapons at it's disposal. The reason some people argue that Trident is not independent is because although the UK's 58 missiles are owned by the UK, and guarunteed by treaty, they are sourced from a joint stockpile and therefore maintainence is performed in america. If they were so inclined, the americans could break that treaty and, over a period of years, slowly degrade the stockpile by refusing to provide maintainence. Although as the UK has the specs, there is no reason why it couldn't maintain them itself.

Edited by zthomasz on Friday 28th October 23:14

Edited by zthomasz on Friday 28th October 23:15

[WhoseGeneration]

zthomasz said:

You said , "will the usa release the codes" then clarifying "trident launch codes" referencing the american "gold codes". The british equivalent are the "letters of last resort", how they work and in what circumstances are irrelevant, they are the british equivalent. A pre-emptive strike would work in the UK (as in the USA) without any kind of 'codes'. A simple order would be given.




The UK is a sovereign nation isn't it? Why wouldn't it be able to launch a first strike? It has absolutely nothing to do with any other nation. The UK can use any and all weapons at it's disposal. The reason some people argue that Trident is not independent is because although the UK's 58 missiles are owned by the UK, and guarunteed by treaty, they are sourced from a joint stockpile and therefore maintainence is performed in america. If they were so inclined, the americans could break that treaty and, over a period of years, slowly degrade the stockpile by refusing to provide maintainence. Although as the UK has the specs, there is no reason why it couldn't maintain them itself.

Edited by zthomasz on Friday 28th October 23:14

Edited by zthomasz on Friday 28th October 23:15

Erm, context.
Firstly, my initial post was in response to a newspaper headline.
A tabloid, not noted for its EUcentric view.
It was by way of a joke in response to that headline.
Secondly, to be more serious, I do doubt the UK could use Trident upon any European Nation without USA approval.
You may know better and I would, therefore, accept that greater knowledge.

[DonkeyApple]

zthomasz said:

Trident doesn't have launch codes. It has "Letters of Last Resort".

Does this letter need to be published in the Times by an irate member of the WI?

[DonkeyApple]

hademall said:

This is my first post so dont be too hard on me. Ive read the previous comments on the "solution" to EU's problems.

My view is that regardless of whichever solution (or mixture of), is applied, the EU will muddle through for a couple of years and perhaps then completely break up or re-invent itself, perhaps in 2 teirs as has been suggested for some time.

However, my biggest concern is how we ge out of the hole we are in, and by "we" I mean the world. I just dont see where growth is going to come from, because most major economies - including China, are in the doldrums - and if we do end up borrowing money from China (one can only speculate how smug the Chinese mandarins are feeling now that the once powrefull "west" is coming cap in hand - how the mighty have fallen), rest assured China will exact a very heavy price both financially and strategically, in my opinion, whilst at the same time, fighting for the same new emerging markets, meaning competativeness will be paramount and the "west" meanwhile, is overburdened with bureaucracy, plus min. wage etc making it uncompetative.

Its going to be a very long hard struggle and I fully agree with those who say it may take 5 - 10 years for us to get back to anywhere near respectable growh figures and in the process, its going to be very painful.

Sorry to make my 1st post so "doom laden" but I really do feel we need to have realistic expectations for the future.

We are China's 'Eloi'. I'm confident they will be prudent with their harvesting.

[cardigankid]

The solution is really very simple, it is just that noone will do it.

Next, there will never be a two tier Europe, because Italy would never be a member of a club that has Greece, Portugal and Spain in it, and vice versa for all of them. All they want is access to loads of German money. German money which incidentally would be massively more valuable to them if they returned to their previous currencies and devalued.

The problem, globally, is that governments are inefficient, either through corruption (India and Russia) excessive central control (China) or oversized public sectors and welfare states (Europe) or the hijacking of democracy by interest groups (America). All capitalism really needs is a reasonably efficient government, free trade and low taxes. The first nation to realise these conditions will be the next economic powerhouse. Simples.