Greece - how strange
Discussion
So the EU and the world is in turmoil (again) and all out pensions are heading south (again).
And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Now there's a shocker. Asking the people what they want? That will never do - even democratic Britons are gagged and bound in a cupboard. But seeing as 'those who know' have managed to royally f
k up things, I can't think the people could do much worse.
A few months ago at a wedding I shared a table with some European economists. The only solution in their awfully clever and very well-paid minds was to keep throwing money at Greece. End of. As the mere photographer it didn't seem my place to tell them it wasn't going to work... and that the only solution was to start dismantling the Euro and very possibly the EU as well.
Artificial come, artificial go...
And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Now there's a shocker. Asking the people what they want? That will never do - even democratic Britons are gagged and bound in a cupboard. But seeing as 'those who know' have managed to royally f
k up things, I can't think the people could do much worse.A few months ago at a wedding I shared a table with some European economists. The only solution in their awfully clever and very well-paid minds was to keep throwing money at Greece. End of. As the mere photographer it didn't seem my place to tell them it wasn't going to work... and that the only solution was to start dismantling the Euro and very possibly the EU as well.
Artificial come, artificial go...
Simpo Two said:
So the EU and the world is in turmoil (again) and all out pensions are heading south (again).
And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Now there's a shocker. Asking the people what they want? That will never do - even democratic Britons are gagged and bound in a cupboard. But seeing as 'those who know' have managed to royally fk up things, I can't think the people could do much worse.
A few months ago at a wedding I shared a table with some European economists. The only solution in their awfully clever and very well-paid minds was to keep throwing money at Greece. End of. As the mere photographer it didn't seem my place to tell them it wasn't going to work... and that the only solution was to start dismantling the Euro and very possibly the EU as well.
Artificial come, artificial go...
Good points. However, the problem now is that the problems are now so big, and the repercussions from getting it wrong so huge, that I suspect that most politicos realise that letting their (emotional, pissed off, angry and poorly informed) populations actually do the decision making right now might precipitate the worst kind of disaster. War is not unthinkable. And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Now there's a shocker. Asking the people what they want? That will never do - even democratic Britons are gagged and bound in a cupboard. But seeing as 'those who know' have managed to royally f
k up things, I can't think the people could do much worse.A few months ago at a wedding I shared a table with some European economists. The only solution in their awfully clever and very well-paid minds was to keep throwing money at Greece. End of. As the mere photographer it didn't seem my place to tell them it wasn't going to work... and that the only solution was to start dismantling the Euro and very possibly the EU as well.
Artificial come, artificial go...
Yes, I didn't mean let them run the country in populist anarchy, but give them on a say on IN vs OUT. I still have this stupid idea that politicians are supposed to represent the electorate. If they don't, why have elections?
I don't see any EU country suddenly going to war against its neighbours - do you?
I don't see any EU country suddenly going to war against its neighbours - do you?
Well, they shouldn't be in the Euro. We all know it, the Greek people know it, but their government wants to save their own skins and appease the bizarre European ideological drive to get completely different countries with different economies to share a currency.
They will say no, and rightly so.
They will say no, and rightly so.
Edited by 0a on Wednesday 2nd November 13:39
Simpo Two said:
Yes, I didn't mean let them run the country in populist anarchy, but give them on a say on IN vs OUT. I still have this stupid idea that politicians are supposed to represent the electorate. If they don't, why have elections?
I dont disagree with you; but in this instance I dont think that their actions has anything to do with empowering the population. As soon as it suits, the peoples opinion will be firmly on a back-burner. The phrase favoured here is 'we have a parliamentary democracy', which translates as: 'vote for me and then I will do as I see fit'.
GC8 said:
As soon as it suits, the peoples opinion will be firmly on a back-burner. The phrase favoured here is 'we have a parliamentary democracy', which translates as: 'vote for me and then I will do as I see fit'.
As beautifully elucidated to me during an email exchange with my MP, as to why he voted against the referendum, to paraphrase, "because I can, now leave me alone"All this came about down to one thing.
Greece blatantly Lied and Misled the EU in 2001/2002 about their Fiscal capacity, market exposure & Capitalization etc.
The EU failed to do proper due diligence on them.
Greece carried on spending and getting further into debt (Olympics/New Airport/Motorways etc). In 2004 I think the cat was out of the bag and Greece was fined by the EU. Greece hit by the European downturn, interest rates went up and the whole debt issued gathered greater momentum.....Many Greeks put their money outside of Greece and many avoided Tax too.....
The Eurozone and the IMF (to which the UK contributes a lot) offered huge bailouts and debt write off's...... This is key - why offer additional funds to a country that cannot afford its existing Debts?? (much of which itself was additional bail out money)...
EU now trying to rectify their own mistakes .....
EURO .. One size does not fit all.....
I get paid in Euros... but happy that the UK still has the GBP....
Greece blatantly Lied and Misled the EU in 2001/2002 about their Fiscal capacity, market exposure & Capitalization etc.
The EU failed to do proper due diligence on them.
Greece carried on spending and getting further into debt (Olympics/New Airport/Motorways etc). In 2004 I think the cat was out of the bag and Greece was fined by the EU. Greece hit by the European downturn, interest rates went up and the whole debt issued gathered greater momentum.....Many Greeks put their money outside of Greece and many avoided Tax too.....
The Eurozone and the IMF (to which the UK contributes a lot) offered huge bailouts and debt write off's...... This is key - why offer additional funds to a country that cannot afford its existing Debts?? (much of which itself was additional bail out money)...
EU now trying to rectify their own mistakes .....
EURO .. One size does not fit all.....
I get paid in Euros... but happy that the UK still has the GBP....
Edited by ForzaWhitesGen2 on Wednesday 2nd November 13:53
Simpo Two said:
So the EU and the world is in turmoil (again) and all out pensions are heading south (again).
And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
That's not what it's about though: the Greeks think the question is:And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Do you agree to the nasty German plan to take away your jobs and your money or do you instead want a magical Greek solution that will make everything OK again so that you can continue buy Porsches, retire at 50 and have the Germans pay for all of it?
Bing o said:
History suggests that war is a likely outcome of this.
On what basis?What would be the reason to go to war?
Economically there wouldn't be anything to gain, and it's not like we need to worry about any Megalomaniacs. Not unless we really think that the Red Army are about to rise again (I highly doubt it).
Robbo66 said:
GC8 said:
The referendum has chuff all to do with democracy though, and a lot to do with shirking responsibility.
If it worked the other way, then 'the people' wouldnt get a look in...
ExactlyIf it worked the other way, then 'the people' wouldnt get a look in...
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Bing o said:
History suggests that war is a likely outcome of this.
On what basis?What would be the reason to go to war?
Economically there wouldn't be anything to gain, and it's not like we need to worry about any Megalomaniacs. Not unless we really think that the Red Army are about to rise again (I highly doubt it).
Zod said:
Somebody came up with the perfect solution at lunch. The Germans should offer Greece to the Turks for 40 cents in the Euro payment on Greek debts.
Can't see a downside.
I reckon the Germs would be quite happy to take the debt in the form of Greek islands at c. 1bn euro a pop (depending on size and number of beaches), with constitutionally-guaranteed (and enforceable) sunbed rights. Can't see a downside.
tonym911 said:
I reckon the Germs would be quite happy to take the debt in the form of Greek islands at c. 1bn euro a pop (depending on size and number of beaches), with constitutionally-guaranteed (and enforceable) sunbed rights.
Parts of Cyprus & Kos then must have already been taken over!!Zod said:
Simpo Two said:
So the EU and the world is in turmoil (again) and all out pensions are heading south (again).
And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
That's not what it's about though: the Greeks think the question is:And what has caused this international horror? Why, because the Greek Government has decided to ask its people what they want.
Do you agree to the nasty German plan to take away your jobs and your money or do you instead want a magical Greek solution that will make everything OK again so that you can continue buy Porsches, retire at 50 and have the Germans pay for all of it?
ks isn't it, the majority of Greek people don't own Porsches or retire at 50, they work like the rest of usGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff