Young and jobless graduates - BBC
Discussion
Victor McDade said:
The sense of entitlement from the graduates on Newsnight yesterday was incredible. They literally expected the government to create all these jobs for them just because they were 'graduates'. They bemoaned the job centre offering jobs which were beneath them because afterall they were 'graduates'.
Yes I was thinking that whilst watching. I was especially annoyed at the girl who believed she had been forced into unemployment by the cancellation of her song writing college course, as if there are loads of jobs out there for songwriters.Ben
scenario8 said:
Sorry to dispell PH myths about la-di-da degrees - Simon Nash of Green Oil (the manufacturers of the bicycle oil that was used as a case study this morning on BBC News) studied a BA in Philosophy and Politics at the University of Southampton.
http://www.soton.ac.uk/philosophy/alumni/our_alumn...
It is possible to study Arts and Social Science and also be a driven entrepreneur. He's quite an interesting guy, to be honest, but I'm quite surprised to see him being praised on PH as his politics aren't exactly in line with the general view on these fora.
Good luck to him.
http://www.green-oil.net/environment.html
I accept the UK needs to enthuse young people into studying science and engineering to a greater extent than now, and industry has a role in getting more young people into apprenticeships. Outside of the very best students and the very best courses it is a very difficult situation out there for graduates in almost all disciplines. This story is being carried by media outlets other than the BBC.
Nothing wrong with philosophy. Logic and critical thinking, structuring arguements and so on if done properly. Right minded people get annoyed with proper bhttp://www.soton.ac.uk/philosophy/alumni/our_alumn...
It is possible to study Arts and Social Science and also be a driven entrepreneur. He's quite an interesting guy, to be honest, but I'm quite surprised to see him being praised on PH as his politics aren't exactly in line with the general view on these fora.
Good luck to him.
http://www.green-oil.net/environment.html
I accept the UK needs to enthuse young people into studying science and engineering to a greater extent than now, and industry has a role in getting more young people into apprenticeships. Outside of the very best students and the very best courses it is a very difficult situation out there for graduates in almost all disciplines. This story is being carried by media outlets other than the BBC.
ks degrees. ok, i'm going to stand up for the "ologists" here, i did a degree in social-psychology in because i wanted to be a probation officer. after graduating and going through the selection process for the probation service, it dawned on me that although i had my degree, i had absolutely no experience of quite what i would be facing.
I was 21, could I really deal with a 17 year old, almost unemployable drug addict and work with them to help change their life around to keep them on the straight and narrow. what did i know about the issues that had resulted in their situation and what life skills did I have that could help, I had gone from secondary school straight to sixth form, straight to university and then popped out with some letters after my name but no real life experience.
What I learnt was that not only was my choice of degree was less than ideal for the preferred vocation but i was far too young and inexperienced to even consider the job, i realised this three years too late. i dont blame anyone, at the time I probably had an idealistic opinion of myself and the world. Despite people saying that i would be able to relate to the people iwould be working with because of the small age gaps, i knew that i wouldnt. although i had the academic credentials, i had never really been exposed to the circumstnaces that would lead someone to drugs and crime when I had little experience of it myself. I had a good upbringing, my parents didnt beat me, they werent alcoholics and they brought me up to respect other people and their property.
i am sure many other people have ended up in my position having taken similar degrees. I think it takes a strong person to take on a role such as that described above at a young age and from a different social/economic background. its too easy to belittle the choice of degree when the decision to choose that course of study was made with good, honest intentions. the mark of an individual, in my opinion, is whether they moan about it and stamp their feet or find a new career and apply themselves to it. although i may have done a very small amount of the former, i did a lot more of the latter....
I was 21, could I really deal with a 17 year old, almost unemployable drug addict and work with them to help change their life around to keep them on the straight and narrow. what did i know about the issues that had resulted in their situation and what life skills did I have that could help, I had gone from secondary school straight to sixth form, straight to university and then popped out with some letters after my name but no real life experience.
What I learnt was that not only was my choice of degree was less than ideal for the preferred vocation but i was far too young and inexperienced to even consider the job, i realised this three years too late. i dont blame anyone, at the time I probably had an idealistic opinion of myself and the world. Despite people saying that i would be able to relate to the people iwould be working with because of the small age gaps, i knew that i wouldnt. although i had the academic credentials, i had never really been exposed to the circumstnaces that would lead someone to drugs and crime when I had little experience of it myself. I had a good upbringing, my parents didnt beat me, they werent alcoholics and they brought me up to respect other people and their property.
i am sure many other people have ended up in my position having taken similar degrees. I think it takes a strong person to take on a role such as that described above at a young age and from a different social/economic background. its too easy to belittle the choice of degree when the decision to choose that course of study was made with good, honest intentions. the mark of an individual, in my opinion, is whether they moan about it and stamp their feet or find a new career and apply themselves to it. although i may have done a very small amount of the former, i did a lot more of the latter....
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 16th November 14:07
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When it was decreed that being an apprentice was 'old hat' and so not required during the early 1980's, lots of old duffers, including myself, were shocked and dumbfounded at the decision to axe them. Thousands of us said at the time that it is going to leave a gaping hole in 'the trades' skills, that doing a degree is no substitute for an apprentice based learning skill. Each has its place and need in the workplace of course and each as important to the employer. Bringing the apprentice back is a good thing, but the hole made during the lost thirty years is at a huge cost to Companies and individuals, not to mention the Country. Bloody politicians, they do not know the difference between their arse and underpants.I think the degree subject and university only get you so far- importantly, a foot in the door. Which is all motovated, bright people (whether uni graduates or not) need.
University study now seems like a 3 year fancy dress pub crawl party for 80% of students while they cram in 5-10 hours a week of tutorials and then cram for exams.
If that's what school leavers aspire to, good luck to them. ( can't blame them as when they get to the real world it is pretty st at times!)
But they seem under the illusion it guarantees them a job, not realising is that in the main it just teaches them how to be independent of thought etc.
The bright motivated ones will be fine. The not so bright will achieve what they would with or without a degree.
University study now seems like a 3 year fancy dress pub crawl party for 80% of students while they cram in 5-10 hours a week of tutorials and then cram for exams.
If that's what school leavers aspire to, good luck to them. ( can't blame them as when they get to the real world it is pretty s
t at times!)But they seem under the illusion it guarantees them a job, not realising is that in the main it just teaches them how to be independent of thought etc.
The bright motivated ones will be fine. The not so bright will achieve what they would with or without a degree.
Victor McDade said:
The sense of entitlement from the graduates on Newsnight yesterday was incredible. They literally expected the government to create all these jobs for them just because they were 'graduates'. They bemoaned the job centre offering jobs which were beneath them because afterall they were 'graduates'.
Yes it was shocking to see, lack of real world and being educated from year five onwards that 'there are no losers, only winners'. Pure and utter clap trap nonsense which is now the monkey on these young persons back, they seem to truly believe. crankedup said:
Yes it was shocking to see, lack of real world and being educated from year five onwards that 'there are no losers, only winners'. Pure and utter clap trap nonsense which is now the monkey on these young persons back, they seem to truly believe.
Ah years of labour rule coming home to roost. And now there isn't a swollen state to give them 25k year plus car jobs for fairness in xyz,its causing problem.I am sad that young people can't find work, its a complex subject but i saw a graph and its a problem that has been brewing for a number of years sadly.
This spreadsheet seems to show that the worst hit subjects are:
IT (16.3% unemployed after 6 months)
Media Studies (14.6%)
Electrical & Electronic Engineering (13.3%)
and the best subjects:
Law (6.2%)
Sport Science (6.9%)
Geography (7.4%)
Data from 2010 via EDConnect
IT (16.3% unemployed after 6 months)
Media Studies (14.6%)
Electrical & Electronic Engineering (13.3%)
and the best subjects:
Law (6.2%)
Sport Science (6.9%)
Geography (7.4%)
Data from 2010 via EDConnect
mikele pirelli said:
crankedup said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When it was decreed that being an apprentice was 'old hat' and so not required during the early 1980's, lots of old duffers, including myself, were shocked and dumbfounded at the decision to axe them. Thousands of us said at the time that it is going to leave a gaping hole in 'the trades' skills, that doing a degree is no substitute for an apprentice based learning skill. Each has its place and need in the workplace of course and each as important to the employer. Bringing the apprentice back is a good thing, but the hole made during the lost thirty years is at a huge cost to Companies and individuals, not to mention the Country. Bloody politicians, they do not know the difference between their arse and underpants.have served " proper " apprenticeships. I don't mean the " We'll
make you into an " electrician " in six weeks " bulls
t ..."sign here".Scammers, who take money from people under false pretences, imo.
I've interviewed many youngsters who really have just skimmed the
basics, and I mean skimmed. They fall apart under scrutiny because :
A/ they are not being taught proper practical skills appropriate
to the workplace.
or
B/ they look to be have been taught whatever seems to be the colleges'
current hobbyhorse topic and little or nothing else.
I could give you some dire interview responses I've had to fairly
basic questions in interviews. Questions I'd expect a 2nd/3rd year
apprentice to have known.
And God only knows what they are being taught at uni these days.
I know of one lad who spent four years at uni, studying an " honours " degree.
He hasn't earned a single penny from the discipline he spent
four years learning. He's currently working as a barman, and shows
no interest in doing anything else.
No disrespect to anyone doing bar work... but really ?
I don't think you need to spend four years in
a university to work behind a bar. Do you ? Or, am I THAT far out of
touch ?
Or perhaps, maybe learn something...... I have a mechanical engineering degree, 1st class, masters. From a good university no less.
But I bet I couldn't tell you what speed you need to set a lathe to for machining aluminium with a steel cutting tool. They teach you it in first year sure, but thats it, that was in 2004.... 2-3 hours in the workshop and you basically never see it again for the rest of you're time there. Now ok, some might argue that my ultimate destination is not to be working the lathes or the bridgeport machines. That ill be in the offices designing/analysing/managing. But to be honest, if you have poor grasp of how things have to be made, especially bespoke things, then how can you design them properly? or budget manufacturing times properly? Thats why Im loving my time working in the engine labs at the moment because I get to find all these things out, things which despite the impending PhD, I wouldn't otherwise know.
So while some say hands on apprenticeships are needed because not everyone is suited to university, I'd say they are needed even for people who are going to university (related to subject of course) if you want to get a really good understanding of certain subjects.
I remember in my 3rd year designing my 3rd year project and having all the drawings handed back to me from the workshop. The parts I designed would either be impossible to machine or very difficult to machine with the desired tolerances. I got schooled that day!! Workshop technician didn't get angry at me though, he knew full well we simply don't get taught or get exposed to this kind of thing for any meaningful length of time.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Lets hear some of these interview responses then! Could do with a laugh
Or perhaps, maybe learn something...... I have a mechanical engineering degree, 1st class, masters. From a good university no less.
But I bet I couldn't tell you what speed you need to set a lathe to for machining aluminium with a steel cutting tool. They teach you it in first year sure, but thats it, that was in 2004.... 2-3 hours in the workshop and you basically never see it again for the rest of you're time there. Now ok, some might argue that my ultimate destination is not to be working the lathes or the bridgeport machines. That ill be in the offices designing/analysing/managing. But to be honest, if you have poor grasp of how things have to be made, especially bespoke things, then how can you design them properly? or budget manufacturing times properly? Thats why Im loving my time working in the engine labs at the moment because I get to find all these things out, things which despite the impending PhD, I wouldn't otherwise know.
So while some say hands on apprenticeships are needed because not everyone is suited to university, I'd say they are needed even for people who are going to university (related to subject of course) if you want to get a really good understanding of certain subjects.
I remember in my 3rd year designing my 3rd year project and having all the drawings handed back to me from the workshop. The parts I designed would either be impossible to machine or very difficult to machine with the desired tolerances. I got schooled that day!! Workshop technician didn't get angry at me though, he knew full well we simply don't get taught or get exposed to this kind of thing for any meaningful length of time.
Like we said, both the Graduate and the apprentice time served employee are both equal in the work place to the employer. Each should have respect for the other and both are vital to a prosperous company imho.Or perhaps, maybe learn something...... I have a mechanical engineering degree, 1st class, masters. From a good university no less.
But I bet I couldn't tell you what speed you need to set a lathe to for machining aluminium with a steel cutting tool. They teach you it in first year sure, but thats it, that was in 2004.... 2-3 hours in the workshop and you basically never see it again for the rest of you're time there. Now ok, some might argue that my ultimate destination is not to be working the lathes or the bridgeport machines. That ill be in the offices designing/analysing/managing. But to be honest, if you have poor grasp of how things have to be made, especially bespoke things, then how can you design them properly? or budget manufacturing times properly? Thats why Im loving my time working in the engine labs at the moment because I get to find all these things out, things which despite the impending PhD, I wouldn't otherwise know.
So while some say hands on apprenticeships are needed because not everyone is suited to university, I'd say they are needed even for people who are going to university (related to subject of course) if you want to get a really good understanding of certain subjects.
I remember in my 3rd year designing my 3rd year project and having all the drawings handed back to me from the workshop. The parts I designed would either be impossible to machine or very difficult to machine with the desired tolerances. I got schooled that day!! Workshop technician didn't get angry at me though, he knew full well we simply don't get taught or get exposed to this kind of thing for any meaningful length of time.
Indeed. he could have watched Sky News covering the same subject all day from a very similar perspective but for longer had he wanted to. Blasted loony Sky lefties banging on about unemployment hitting a 17 year high and NEETS being at an all time high like it's a problem or something.
There has always been a difficulty getting that first real job, especially if you got a reasonable degree from a reasonable university havving tried reasonably hard. I.e you are average in many respects rather than truely outstanding. Part of the problem is that virtually no company really wants to be a persons first job unless they know they will have you indoctrinated into their way of work or the job is so piss easy they just need a body present.
stefd said:
This spreadsheet seems to show that the worst hit subjects are:
IT (16.3% unemployed after 6 months)
Media Studies (14.6%)
Electrical & Electronic Engineering (13.3%)
and the best subjects:
Law (6.2%)
Sport Science (6.9%)
Geography (7.4%)
Data from 2010 via EDConnect
IT doesn't surprise me given the numbers of imported cheap labour from the sub continent and also offshoring, Media Studies - Meh, but Electrical & Electronic Engineering does, I would have thought that would be a good degree option, maybe a sad sign of the lack of manufacturing in our economy.IT (16.3% unemployed after 6 months)
Media Studies (14.6%)
Electrical & Electronic Engineering (13.3%)
and the best subjects:
Law (6.2%)
Sport Science (6.9%)
Geography (7.4%)
Data from 2010 via EDConnect
covmutley said:
Labours social justice policies pushed people to university, resulting in a generation with skills that dont match the real economy.
I started Uni in '96. There were junk courses then as there are now. 2 D grades at A-level were sufficient to get to some ex-Polytechnics. Labour picked up where the Conservatives left off. bga said:
I started Uni in '96. There were junk courses then as there are now. 2 D grades at A-level were sufficient to get to some ex-Polytechnics. Labour picked up where the Conservatives left off.
I started in '95. 2 D and 1 E got me into a proper Uni.I partied my arse off and 4 years later I walked away with a BEng, and I've been in employment pretty much ever since.
In summary : Meh.
Benny Saltstein said:
If you punch in a course and university into this site it will give you a breakdown of where people end up in employment or otherwise.
http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/englishIndex.do?t=20...
Hah! That's pretty good actually...http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/englishIndex.do?t=20...
My course/uni comes out as 100% grad employment (Computer Science/Warwick). If I change the degree to sociology it does down to 65% :P
Switch the "university" of east london and it's.... 25%
Why bother?
Interesting stats though.
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