What's wrong with Britain 2012

[CommanderJameson]

highway said:

Still no political will to address any of these real life issues. I suspect because those creating legislation aren't living in conventional locations. I don't want right wing or left wing, I want some sense shown, encouraged and enforced. I want a fair society which is patently not what we have at the moment.

You don't think it might be a tiny bit more complicated than "showing some sense"?

[highway]

No.

Put aside your politics and act in a fair way for the good of the majority and the nation. I accept its naive. Why is it to much to hope for?

[CommanderJameson]

highway said:

No.

Put aside your politics and act in a fair way for the good of the majority and the nation. I accept its naive. Why is it to much to hope for?

So you don't think it's more complicated than that, but you do accept it's naive?

What's "a fair way"? See, my "fair way" means that we use prison as a tool to rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated, and to confine those who can't. I think it's very important that we maintain the moral high ground and don't descend into retributory justice. I also think that we spend way, way too much time pondering criminality (and vengeance) when we should be raising our sights to loftier goals; lock them up, deal with them in a dignified manner, and then forget about them, whilst we get on and invent flying cars and fusion reactors and other incredibly cool and useful things.

I'm guessing that you think that that makes me a lefty wet liberal hand-wringer.

See? It's already more complicated than that, because I have a vote, too.

[highway]

CommanderJameson said:

So you don't think it's more complicated than that, but you do accept it's naive?

What's "a fair way"? See, my "fair way" means that we use prison as a tool to rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated, and to confine those who can't. I think it's very important that we maintain the moral high ground and don't descend into retributory justice. I also think that we spend way, way too much time pondering criminality (and vengeance) when we should be raising our sights to loftier goals; lock them up, deal with them in a dignified manner, and then forget about them, whilst we get on and invent flying cars and fusion reactors and other incredibly cool and useful things.

I'm guessing that you think that that makes me a lefty wet liberal hand-wringer.

See? It's already more complicated than that, because I have a vote, too.

I agree with most of your post. The problem for me is that rehabilitating repeat offenders doesn't work. Hence the amount of prisoners who go inside again and again. It's easy to take a romantic view of those who commit crime as in a civilised society we tend to believe if people are not acting like the majority of us their behaviour can be changed or modified with the correct remedial training or education.

For many this is simply not the case. No amount of " rehabilitation" is going to work when you are a ways down a particular path. I'm all for diversion projects and the like. However, my priority is that which I think should be the priority of government. That is, simply, protecting those who haven't offended. The rights of those "uncovicted" must be advanced to those who have.

[CommanderJameson]

That's why I was careful to qualify what I said with "those who can be rehabilitated".

[SPS]

Far too much emphasis is placed on the offender and much , much less on the victims and the law abiding public.
When you see many of these idiots continuing to offend for year after year and literally laughing at the sentences handed out. Then going down to the DSS and getting hand outs for their drugs and alcohol addictions (by the way I have a friend who works in this area and it happens across the board) it really does make you wonder why these people are allowed to take the p*** out of society across several generations!
Rehabilitation has it's place but surely punishment at a meaningful level needs to be the overriding priority.

[highway]

Yep. Bang on.