What's wrong with Britain 2012
Discussion
If you are talking about people suffering definable mental illness having large families because they don't fathom birth control then that's a different issue. One that's not that much of an issue I'd imagine..
I really don't see how you can make a case for two adults, unemployed and without interest in working, having more and more children whilst expecting the state to lay on a bigger property and provide more cash each time they do it. It's unfair to others who are renting or buying through their own labour and it does these families no good either. They don't look after what they have as they have no vested interest in doing so, easy come easy go.
Joe average breaks a window in his gaff, he fixes it himself or pays someone to do it for him. Council tenant breaks window, best they phone council and someone comes to fix it. For free. And so it goes on.
If you are wealthy, living in a nice area and earning a good whack you may not begrudge those who choose not to work but to breed and live off the backs of others. That I suspect is why the political classes find it quite logical to give millions of pounds of British taxpayers money in overseas aid. They themselves are wealthy, it's not their money and maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.
Never mind that money would be better spent paying uk workers to go to these needy counties and build them infrastructure, a road network, water wells etc.No just hand over the gift of cash..
Anyway, if you personally know a large family living off benefits I accept they may well be reasonable people. Most of them ( that I have met at any rate) are at best unpleasant .
I really don't see how you can make a case for two adults, unemployed and without interest in working, having more and more children whilst expecting the state to lay on a bigger property and provide more cash each time they do it. It's unfair to others who are renting or buying through their own labour and it does these families no good either. They don't look after what they have as they have no vested interest in doing so, easy come easy go.
Joe average breaks a window in his gaff, he fixes it himself or pays someone to do it for him. Council tenant breaks window, best they phone council and someone comes to fix it. For free. And so it goes on.
If you are wealthy, living in a nice area and earning a good whack you may not begrudge those who choose not to work but to breed and live off the backs of others. That I suspect is why the political classes find it quite logical to give millions of pounds of British taxpayers money in overseas aid. They themselves are wealthy, it's not their money and maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.
Never mind that money would be better spent paying uk workers to go to these needy counties and build them infrastructure, a road network, water wells etc.No just hand over the gift of cash..
Anyway, if you personally know a large family living off benefits I accept they may well be reasonable people. Most of them ( that I have met at any rate) are at best unpleasant .
If you are talking about people suffering definable mental illness having large families because they don't fathom birth control then that's a different issue. One that's not that much of an issue I'd imagine..
I really don't see how you can make a case for two adults, unemployed and without interest in working, having more and more children whilst expecting the state to lay on a bigger property and provide more cash each time they do it. It's unfair to others who are renting or buying through their own labour and it does these families no good either. They don't look after what they have as they have no vested interest in doing so, easy come easy go.
Joe average breaks a window in his gaff, he fixes it himself or pays someone to do it for him. Council tenant breaks window, best they phone council and someone comes to fix it. For free. And so it goes on.
If you are wealthy, living in a nice area and earning a good whack you may not begrudge those who choose not to work but to breed and live off the backs of others. That I suspect is why the political classes find it quite logical to give millions of pounds of British taxpayers money in overseas aid. They themselves are wealthy, it's not their money and maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.
Never mind that money would be better spent paying uk workers to go to these needy counties and build them infrastructure, a road network, water wells etc.No just hand over the gift of cash..
Anyway, if you personally know a large family living off benefits I accept they may well be reasonable people. Most of them ( that I have met at any rate) are at best unpleasant .
I really don't see how you can make a case for two adults, unemployed and without interest in working, having more and more children whilst expecting the state to lay on a bigger property and provide more cash each time they do it. It's unfair to others who are renting or buying through their own labour and it does these families no good either. They don't look after what they have as they have no vested interest in doing so, easy come easy go.
Joe average breaks a window in his gaff, he fixes it himself or pays someone to do it for him. Council tenant breaks window, best they phone council and someone comes to fix it. For free. And so it goes on.
If you are wealthy, living in a nice area and earning a good whack you may not begrudge those who choose not to work but to breed and live off the backs of others. That I suspect is why the political classes find it quite logical to give millions of pounds of British taxpayers money in overseas aid. They themselves are wealthy, it's not their money and maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.
Never mind that money would be better spent paying uk workers to go to these needy counties and build them infrastructure, a road network, water wells etc.No just hand over the gift of cash..
Anyway, if you personally know a large family living off benefits I accept they may well be reasonable people. Most of them ( that I have met at any rate) are at best unpleasant .
nelly1 said:
Whereas Singapore...
Singapore jails the most people per 100,000 population after the US, although it's a lot easier to get banged up. Cheat in the Casino - 1 year. Avoid taxes - 6 months + a fine equal to your tax bill. Vandalise a train carriage - 1-2 years + the cane. Kill someone, import firearms, or drugs - death penalty. That's all for first offences too. (Obvious in the last case).For what is purported to be a police state, you see a lot less police and CCTV than the UK.
People mirror the emotions they are shown and we interact better when left to our own devices. Dictums from on high will always result in them and us.
We do not live in a national bubble and we will always measure success against the less fortunate.
In the very long term large government suffers from the curse/blessing of marginal
utility.
Be glad of your own good health, as real life can be more painful than your darkest imaginings.
Please don't see this as patronising, it is only my humble opinion.
We do not live in a national bubble and we will always measure success against the less fortunate.
In the very long term large government suffers from the curse/blessing of marginal
utility.
Be glad of your own good health, as real life can be more painful than your darkest imaginings.
Please don't see this as patronising, it is only my humble opinion.
Xeno said:
Got a mortgage and lose job = lose house. No housing benefit for mortgage holders.
This is strange, isn't it? It'd be good if the government would pay for your mortgage payments (interest only) if you lost your job. Alternatively pay interest and capital but require the capital paid via the government to be paid back with the sale of the house. They're the only 2 way I can see the system not being gamed.
bucksmanuk said:
What’s wrong?
Lack of discipline and respect...
My 2 youngest nephews went to a school (11-16) which had a head master who ran it just like an old fashioned grammar school. A BIG push on discipline and respect for your fellow pupils was paramount, as well as Duke of Edinburgh schemes and such like. The school went from "average" to "excellent" in a matter of 6 years. There was a big waiting list to get boys into the school for each year. Needless to say some other school somewhere else got the magic chequebook out and enticed him away.
New pinko faggot liberal head master appears, with a larger budget for improvement than the previous guy had, and he is the usual wishy washy "let the boys be our friends" sort, and "Duke of Edinburgh schemes aren't really today". 4 years later the school is now "unsatisfactory" and is being watched by the LEA. Nothing else has changed in the school except the head and his new approach.
So this toss pot and his right-on thinking has taken a school from excellent to unsatisfactory in 4 years. He must be so proud of himself.
What the shuddering fLack of discipline and respect...
My 2 youngest nephews went to a school (11-16) which had a head master who ran it just like an old fashioned grammar school. A BIG push on discipline and respect for your fellow pupils was paramount, as well as Duke of Edinburgh schemes and such like. The school went from "average" to "excellent" in a matter of 6 years. There was a big waiting list to get boys into the school for each year. Needless to say some other school somewhere else got the magic chequebook out and enticed him away.
New pinko faggot liberal head master appears, with a larger budget for improvement than the previous guy had, and he is the usual wishy washy "let the boys be our friends" sort, and "Duke of Edinburgh schemes aren't really today". 4 years later the school is now "unsatisfactory" and is being watched by the LEA. Nothing else has changed in the school except the head and his new approach.
So this toss pot and his right-on thinking has taken a school from excellent to unsatisfactory in 4 years. He must be so proud of himself.
k? So the new head teacher's a bit st. What's his sexuality (assumed by you, I suppose) got to do with anything?We can't say pi quay, because that's offensive, but it's apparently hokey cokey pig in a pokey to refer to "faggots"?
It's threads like this that bring out the worst traits in the PH forum dwellers, every single f
king time.And anyway, as usual, the real situation in that school is almost certainly far more complicated than the picture you're painting here. Got a copy of the OFSTED report? What does it say? I bet you a quid it doesn't say "pinko faggot right-on head teacher with his right-on ideas has f
ked it all up".SpeedMattersNot said:
Without going into details about said family, what do you suggest people who arn't as intelligent as you do?
I don't see how lack of education is an excuse in all honesty, given we all have access to the same state system. Enough of us go through said system and don't wind up benefit dependent with an army of feral kids, so I don't see why we should continually make excuses for people in that situation. Comes back to a sense of personal responsibility. I can understand one or two kids and then life dealing you a bad hand, that's what the benefit system is for, but when you're up to five or six and moaning about not having a big enough place, someone needs to be having a word. I'm not suggesting these folk are living the life of riley or anything, but it can't be fair that people with no intention of working can be on an "income" greater than an average working couple and living in houses those of us who do work couldn't possibly hope to afford without mortgaging ourselves to the eyeballs?CommanderJameson said:
bucksmanuk said:
What’s wrong?
Lack of discipline and respect...
My 2 youngest nephews went to a school (11-16) which had a head master who ran it just like an old fashioned grammar school. A BIG push on discipline and respect for your fellow pupils was paramount, as well as Duke of Edinburgh schemes and such like. The school went from "average" to "excellent" in a matter of 6 years. There was a big waiting list to get boys into the school for each year. Needless to say some other school somewhere else got the magic chequebook out and enticed him away.
New pinko faggot liberal head master appears, with a larger budget for improvement than the previous guy had, and he is the usual wishy washy "let the boys be our friends" sort, and "Duke of Edinburgh schemes aren't really today". 4 years later the school is now "unsatisfactory" and is being watched by the LEA. Nothing else has changed in the school except the head and his new approach.
So this toss pot and his right-on thinking has taken a school from excellent to unsatisfactory in 4 years. He must be so proud of himself.
What the shuddering fLack of discipline and respect...
My 2 youngest nephews went to a school (11-16) which had a head master who ran it just like an old fashioned grammar school. A BIG push on discipline and respect for your fellow pupils was paramount, as well as Duke of Edinburgh schemes and such like. The school went from "average" to "excellent" in a matter of 6 years. There was a big waiting list to get boys into the school for each year. Needless to say some other school somewhere else got the magic chequebook out and enticed him away.
New pinko faggot liberal head master appears, with a larger budget for improvement than the previous guy had, and he is the usual wishy washy "let the boys be our friends" sort, and "Duke of Edinburgh schemes aren't really today". 4 years later the school is now "unsatisfactory" and is being watched by the LEA. Nothing else has changed in the school except the head and his new approach.
So this toss pot and his right-on thinking has taken a school from excellent to unsatisfactory in 4 years. He must be so proud of himself.
k? So the new head teacher's a bit st. What's his sexuality (assumed by you, I suppose) got to do with anything?We can't say pi quay, because that's offensive, but it's apparently hokey cokey pig in a pokey to refer to "faggots"?
It's threads like this that bring out the worst traits in the PH forum dwellers, every single f
king time.And anyway, as usual, the real situation in that school is almost certainly far more complicated than the picture you're painting here. Got a copy of the OFSTED report? What does it say? I bet you a quid it doesn't say "pinko faggot right-on head teacher with his right-on ideas has f
ked it all up".
Regardless of your political persuasion comments like the one CJ highlighted are not appropriate.Highway - I agree. However, I think it's more worthwhile to ensure that people are properly employed rather than working for the state for their beenfits. Variable tax zones encouraging mass-employing industries to set up shop in deprived areas would make far more sense than expanding the client state. It'd reduce the welfare state burden considerably if 'outsourcing' meant shifting the bulk of a company's employees to, say, Newcastle rather than Mumbai.
It's also worth pointing out that these problems:
It's also worth pointing out that these problems:
highway said:
1. Rights without responsibilities
2. Financial reward without work
3. Crime without punishment.
Apply to the dodgy mortgage-lenders, derivatives traders, payday loans firms and just about any other money-grubbing middleman/public-money gambler who seeks to exacerbate the misfortune of others in order to make a profit.2. Financial reward without work
3. Crime without punishment.
hornet said:
I don't see how lack of education is an excuse in all honesty, given we all have access to the same state system. Enough of us go through said system and don't wind up benefit dependent with an army of feral kids, so I don't see why we should continually make excuses for people in that situation. Comes back to a sense of personal responsibility. I can understand one or two kids and then life dealing you a bad hand, that's what the benefit system is for, but when you're up to five or six and moaning about not having a big enough place, someone needs to be having a word. I'm not suggesting these folk are living the life of riley or anything, but it can't be fair that people with no intention of working can be on an "income" greater than an average working couple and living in houses those of us who do work couldn't possibly hope to afford without mortgaging ourselves to the eyeballs?
There are much fewer jobs - and fewer of those have any long-term prospects - for the semi/unskilled than there used to be. If we continue to develop this 'streamlined' economy where it only makes sense to get as highly qualified as possible, then an increasing number of 'brain types' will find themselves unable to be employed anywhere.And then they end up unemployed despite being perfectly able to work. They don't necessarily have the nous to set up their own business or swan into college and get qualifications. It's just that there's no-one to employ them and nothing for them to do in a world where even the lowliest office job seems to require a £27k degree and several months experience working for nothing.
You may also have noticed that these people tend to have more kids, partly because the hard-working types are too busy to have families. If the children follow the parents example, expect this problem to just grow and grow unless things are found for a hell of a lot of people to do.
The country could be raking it in, but if fewer and fewer people can enjoy it and feel effectively locked out of the labour market, you can expect three outcomes:
-The summer riots to become an annual, widespread occurrence, with the soaring insurance premiums and haves/have nots gated-community effect that would ensue.
-The majority electing political parties offering New Labour-style appeasing benefits packages that drain the country's coffers dry time and again.
-Investors not wonting to touch the country with a bargepole.
thinfourth2 said:
Lost_BMW said:
"Your honour, I refer you to thinfourth2's many posts."
"Case closed, guilty."
Well go cry into your copy of the daily wail"Case closed, guilty."
te you spout here all too often.Oh, I don't read the Mail or any paper, so. in the argot, yet another thinfourth fail.
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