Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]
Discussion
Steffan said:
I think we will need to review our understanding of the operation of the EU in the future. This is a seismic change in direction, the EU treaty will not have been the strong solid foundation it was sold to EU electorate as being and there will be seismic consequences to the EU politically.
WE must remember that this complete mess, is purely the result of very bad economic management by the EU and HBAT's. There has been no tragic cataclysmic event, no horrifying tidal wave, or dreadful explosion wiping out whole countries.
Simply dreadful weak and ineffective control of the Banks and Finance throughout the EU and the HBAT's. All the regulators and politicians in all the countries have cheerfully taken the money and ignored the growing problems. This is entirely the fault of the EU and HBAT's. No natural disaster, no cosmic event. Just very very bad management and self serving decisions by self serving toads.
I am certain this fact will gradually dawn on the electorate and taxpayers across the EU. Major changes are bound to follow as the reality of the dishonesty and incompetence becomes vividly portrayed.
It should come as no surprise given the EU is an organisation which hasn't had a set of accounts audited in 2 decades; why would any sane person give these yahoos anything more complex than a whelk stand to manage?WE must remember that this complete mess, is purely the result of very bad economic management by the EU and HBAT's. There has been no tragic cataclysmic event, no horrifying tidal wave, or dreadful explosion wiping out whole countries.
Simply dreadful weak and ineffective control of the Banks and Finance throughout the EU and the HBAT's. All the regulators and politicians in all the countries have cheerfully taken the money and ignored the growing problems. This is entirely the fault of the EU and HBAT's. No natural disaster, no cosmic event. Just very very bad management and self serving decisions by self serving toads.
I am certain this fact will gradually dawn on the electorate and taxpayers across the EU. Major changes are bound to follow as the reality of the dishonesty and incompetence becomes vividly portrayed.
davepoth said:
Wombat3 said:
As above, much of the serious money has gone - lots of new Greek property owners in London & New York etc
And I'd think most of the "normal" Greeks have got as much money as they can stuffed under the mattress. This default is going to be the worst sovereign default the world has seen because they've drawn it out so long,that everything that's not bolted down has been taken out of the country. There has been no cataclysmic economic event, no dreadful natural accident but simply appallingly bad management at the Banks lending to increasingly insolvent Sovereign Countries, without understanding the risk at all. The regulatory institutions have been monitoring this lending and ticking the boxes on the loans, without understanding the risk either. It simply does not protect anybody and costs a fortune,
This is an entirely EU made problem. Putting it right will take years and years and there will be horrendous consequences to millions of innocent Europeans. Ruthless though the EU leaders are, I cannot see them walking away from this mess Scott Free. I can see a growing realisation that unless there are seismic changes this will happen again and again.
The Banking system is at the heart of this problem. Once again the Banks have been proffering long term loans to borrowers who are not capable of servicing the loans. We have seen thus before in the Banking crisis. Now the problem is here once again and this time has to be faced and removed. Major changes are coming to Banking.
WhoseGeneration said:
Steffan said:
Major changes are coming to Banking.
The truth is, only if the politicians want and mandate it.I'm not holding my breath.
But these are ruthless self serving leaders as we now know. I have no doubt they will try every trick in the book, to escape responsibility. But I think the consequences of this lot are too big even for the EU leaders to hide.
Surely the way forward is ,as was mentioned on this thread , is for Germany to pull out of the euro,
It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
The government really needs to plan for the fallout from this problem,our services will not be able to cope, last year I ended up in A&E and at one point everybody around me waiting to be treated, was talking in a foreign accent, this in an area with low immigration, how much worse it will become if the health services in a number of countries start to shrink due to a lack of money.
It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
The government really needs to plan for the fallout from this problem,our services will not be able to cope, last year I ended up in A&E and at one point everybody around me waiting to be treated, was talking in a foreign accent, this in an area with low immigration, how much worse it will become if the health services in a number of countries start to shrink due to a lack of money.
PRTVR said:
Surely the way forward is ,as was mentioned on this thread , is for Germany to pull out of the euro,
It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
This is a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a fox! therefore it will not happen.It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
PRTVR said:
Surely the way forward is ,as was mentioned on this thread , is for Germany to pull out of the euro,
It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
The Euro will drop, but that would be a good thing. It won't happen though, because the new Deutschmark would climb very quickly, making it very uneconomical for every junior salesman in the UK to buy a 1.9TDi VAG with sports bodykit and 58" wheels.It would be far simpler than one by one the other countries having to pull out, this would get over the problem of the millions of euros stuffed under bed etc,the euro would drop in value but without the need for the countries having to deal with the problem, a problem some may think they do not have the resources to deal with.
IMO I think what will bring this down is reality in two halves,firstly the cessastion of more bailout money and secondly the reality that even with their own Europhile leaders in place the math is the same its foooked,and if past is anything to go by a few truths have been found going through Berluscoonis Bunga Bunga regime budget,I bet there were a few things found ,hidden or lied about that will surely make someone realise the game is up.Greece is small fry Italy Spain and Portugal at least are as bad and irretrievable.There is not enough money to pull this back.
Gary11 said:
IMO I think what will bring this down is reality in two halves,firstly the cessastion of more bailout money and secondly the reality that even with their own Europhile leaders in place the math is the same its foooked,and if past is anything to go by a few truths have been found going through Berluscoonis Bunga Bunga regime budget,I bet there were a few things found ,hidden or lied about that will surely make someone realise the game is up.Greece is small fry Italy Spain and Portugal at least are as bad and irretrievable.There is not enough money to pull this back.
I agree with this post. The sheer size of the bailout fund required is clearly too large for the EU to pull together. The reality has sunk home with Sarkozy going and Greece obviously not continuing with penury. This is the one solution the EU hated above all.The truth is coming out.
Telegraph reporting that the wealthy in Paris don't like Hollande and are looking to leave : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/...
Sounds fairly serious - some banks looking to accommodate extra staff in London, others offering tax advice. Estate agents in Kensington seeing increased interest, one has even employed a French speaker to help.
Sounds fairly serious - some banks looking to accommodate extra staff in London, others offering tax advice. Estate agents in Kensington seeing increased interest, one has even employed a French speaker to help.
odyssey2200 said:
I just home that are feckless politicians are smart enough to milk this for all we can.
If you are anticipating the self serving politicians, grabbing as much as they can personally from their time in office, then I think there is every chance of success.If you are hoping that the feckless politicians will milk this for the benefit of the UK electorate, then such a suggestion, is totally outside their interests. Me First is their Mantra. There is no one else to consider.
DJRC has rightly celebrated the collapse of the recent Vote in Germany for the party that Merkel leads. He rightly predicted this and anticipates more losses for Merkel. Good.
This pretty well reflects the situation in France and Greece. Although the politics is very different in the countries the effect is the same.
In the words of the songbird of the 1960's 'The Times they are A'changing'.
The Beeb is running this detail at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18048942
Gaz. said:
That's a lot of people you've got to keep quiet.
And yet it does happen. I could give you some examples, but then I would have to kill you. 
-edit-
That sounds a little flippant. What I can say is that I worked for a number of years at De La Rue. You'll just have to take my word for the rest.
Edited by davepoth on Monday 14th May 01:32
1point7bar said:
Schauble talks like he is in control of Germany's currency.
Does he know something I don't?
Who that is accountable would invest capital in 'Project Bonds'?
Madness.
Yes. That he is angling for his next job to avoid the bloodbath of the next German elections.Does he know something I don't?
Who that is accountable would invest capital in 'Project Bonds'?
Madness.
In other news, share information this morning:
"BNP Paribas was 3.4% lower, Societe Generale lost 3.3% and Credit Agricole fell 3.4%.
Spanish banks Banco Santander and Bankia were down 3.4% and 4.4% respectively."
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